Your opinion on Why Christianity Must Change Or Die?

[nazz]

That is probably fairly safe to say.

The Elhoist of the North and Yahwist of the South disagreements goes way back.

Obviously those further away from Jerusalem felt differently about the authority centred there.

In a way this REALLY resembles Rome and other parts of the Empire as Christianity evolved from it's early days. In the Protestant movement to make the Word more accessible (IE. Non-Temple Centric) as opposed to Rome holding all the cards.

Funny how history repeats itself... including the altering of creeds and reactionary dogmas.

Yes, the division goes all the way back to the days of the Divided Kingdom.

And there is one other conflict that can be added which was between the Galilean Hasideans and the Judean Pharisees.

 

[SageTree]

No doubt . The historical-socio biography of the Scriptures (of any kind) is almost as revealing as the Truths the words are attempting to capture.

 

[Katzpur]

How would it differ from today, besides being more Jewish-y?

It would be more Jewish-y, as you said. Also more Mormon-y. Bet you saw that coming, huh?

 

[Breathe]

It would be more Jewish-y, as you said. Also more Mormon-y. Bet you saw that coming, huh?

LOL, yep.

How would the two be integrated? That'd be interesting.

 

[Mister Emu]

1) The difference being?

The former is a matter of delivery, the latter, content.

2) Why can't theological understanding be improved over time, like every other field of human knowledge?

I was being very general, my apologies for not stating that.

 

[dan b]

Jesus taught us that it is best to die being compassionate than to live being an *******. If what people today call "Christianity" can´t take a hint, let´s hope it goes to heaven at promptly

Haven´t read the book but it sounds very interesting.

Compassion is true christianity though, and that, is immortal.

You are so right that compassion is true Christianity. First there was only nature in a survival of the fittest world. This is what Adam was kicked out of the Garden of Eden into. He had to live in a dog eat dog survival of the fittest natural world.

Then Moses's inspired by God gathered some people off from the rest of the world. He got them to live in their separate society following the strict law of Justice. "An eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth." Everyone would help to enforce the stict laws of Justice without any mercy. Of course in just a short time the new land was secure and prosperous. So long as everone feared the punishments for breaking these laws of justice written in stone their world was much better than those still living in barbaric nature.

Then when these people had experienced living under the law of Justice for 2000 years jesus came to fulfull the law. The law of justice is correct but it needs to "compassion and mercy added." That is what Jesus taught. That is what Christianity has above the Old Covenant Law of Justice. lt is Justice with mercy. Treat even the most horific offender as you would your own brother. Repremand him kindly, put into isolation from others if he will continue to break the law of justice. All human beings have the same sense of justice. It's inherent in Mankind. Maybe it's "in God's image."

If you want to read and see pictures of this above explanation go to chapter six of www.christianidentityrevealed2012.com

It's the chapter called "the Sun, the moon and the stars.

Your opinion above makes me think you might find this interesting. daniel b

 

[Freedomelf]

As mentioned in another thread, the Bible itself has changed a great deal from the Aleppo Bible, the most complete of the older Bibles, written 1100 years ago. And the faith, of course, has changed a great deal as well. Arius and his followers were anathamized when they refused to accept that Jesus was divine and the son of God. Their position was quite popular, in fact, most of the early Christians did not believe that Jesus was the only begotten son of God or an equal member of the trinity. But Emperor Constantine decided that divinity was necessary in order to strengthen the church, so he "coerced" many bishops into signing the Nicene Creed, even those who had supported Arius and the teachings of the early church. They would have had a huge problem with the emperor if they had not signed. Arius himself was anathemized and banished from the land, losing a great deal of his wealth, because of his convictions. Other bishops merely took the easy way out, and therefore, the "divinity" of Christ was established, as well as the fact that he was God's son. Some other things also came out of the Council of Nicaea.

So, the church has changed all along and must continue to change if it is to survive. Christianity Today, a Christian magazine, wrote in an article in November of 2009 that, if the decline in Christian membership continues, then as many as 80 percent of young people born today (2009) will leave the church by the age of 29. That's a huge percentage. Traditionally, teens used to leave the church and then return when they had families to raise up in a faith. That's not happening as it used to. People are staying away. This is one of the reasons the churches introduced rock music, in order to lure the kids back. It worked, but the music is not holding the kids. The underlying inconsistencies in the Bible and the early faith are turning them away.

The young people are doing something that a lot of the older folks didn't do: they are actually reading the Bible, and they don't like what they read. While older people often just read their favorite parts over and over, these kids are reading the parts that give them qualms, and they are turning away. If the church does not acknowledge the fact that the bible, or at least much of it, is fiction, they will not hold the kids. Kids don't want a God who would actually condone genocide, prejudice, the subjugation of women, etc. They would accept it if the church leaders admitted that many parts where "The lord saith" this or that, were simply written by prejudiced men who wanted their people to follow them. They won't accept being told that those were actually god's words.

In other words, the Christian faith must stop telling people that they must either believe in the Bible or go to hell. If they cling to their fire and brimstone, empty threats, they will surely die. And that actually would be a shame, because there is such a richness to the myths/history/legends of the Bible. I hope the faith endures.

 

[nazz]

I agree that the belief in the inerrancy of the Bible is the most dangerous aspect of the traditional Christian faith. Dangerous to others and dangerous to itself.

 

[Dingbat]

I agree that the belief in the inerrancy of the Bible is the most dangerous aspect of the traditional Christian faith. Dangerous to others and dangerous to itself.

Out of curiosity where does that idea come from anyways?

 

[nazz]

Out of curiosity where does that idea come from anyways?

You mean inerrancy? Good question.

People usually quote this verse to support it:

2Ti 3:16-17 All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

But when that was written the Bible as we know didn't even exist.

 

[Dingbat]

You mean inerrancy? Good question.

People usually quote this verse to support it:

2Ti 3:16-17 All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

But when that was written the Bible as we know didn't even exist.

Thank you for the response that is interesting. I have always wondered where various Christian sects got the idea of inerrancy from. Seems rather flimsy.

 

[nazz]

Thank you for the response that is interesting. I have always wondered where various Christian sects got the idea of inerrancy from. Seems rather flimsy.

Indeed.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Sigh... Christianity definitely needs to change. We are so watered down and... Lost.

I'm not even talking about loss of authority or changed doctrines here. I'm talking about a lack of... a lack of engagement. The gospel of Jesus Christ is meant to be lived, not endlessly intellectuallized and recast. The best way to learn it is to live it. "If any man will do his will he shall know of the doctrine."

We are no longer willing to take up our crosses and follow Jesus. He that seeketh his life shall lose it. But he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

What we have today is a lot of professing, and little following. A lot of cheap words, but a lot of hearts set on the things of this world. No man can serve two masters for either he will love the one and hate the other. Or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

And so we see it. Faith is decreasing. Miracles are being forgotten. And the earth is becoming parched and dry thirsting for the living water. And many of us are near perishing when the water is right there in front of us.

Disclaimer* I am just as implicated as anyone here. And this goes more for people who genuinely believe in Jesus Christ as a savior. We should be living what he taught us. Non-believers basically get a pass.

 

[nazz]

Sigh... Christianity definitely needs to change. We are so watered down and... Lost.

I'm not even talking about loss of authority or changed doctrines here. I'm talking about a lack of... a lack of engagement. The gospel of Jesus Christ is meant to be lived, not endlessly intellectuallized and recast. The best way to learn it is to live it. "If any man will do his will he shall know of the doctrine."

We are no longer willing to take up our crosses and follow Jesus. He that seeketh his life shall lose it. But he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

What we have today is a lot of professing, and little following. A lot of cheap words, but a lot of hearts set on the things of this world. No man can serve two masters for either he will love the one and hate the other. Or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

And so we see it. Faith is decreasing. Miracles are being forgotten. And the earth is becoming parched and dry thirsting for the living water. And many of us are near perishing when the water is right there in front of us.

Disclaimer* I am just as implicated as anyone here. And this goes more for people who genuinely believe in Jesus Christ as a savior. We should be living what he taught us. Non-believers basically get a pass.

Isn't that pretty much how it has always been?

 

[dan b]

I agree that the belief in the inerrancy of the Bible is the most dangerous aspect of the traditional Christian faith. Dangerous to others and dangerous to itself.

It's designed like that on purpose for the masses. They don't really have a sincere interest in it and will only trample it's pearls like swine as soon as they are given them. Don't worry about the Bible. It's real message is always there for those who give the time to acctually read the entire book and truly examine it. It's for the elect, the rest arn't actually interested anyway so they make of the cuff remarks. No problem. Everything in the Bible is true for those who have sincere interest. It's designed that way to protect it. Looks foolish to the foolish and shines glorious to those which eyes to see and ears to hear it's tune. ta ta

 

[Freedomelf]

It's designed like that on purpose for the masses. They don't really have a sincere interest in it and will only trample it's pearls like swine as soon as they are given them. Don't worry about the Bible. It's real message is always there for those who give the time to acctually read the entire book and truly examine it. It's for the elect, the rest arn't actually interested anyway so they make of the cuff remarks. No problem. Everything in the Bible is true for those who have sincere interest. It's designed that way to protect it. Looks foolish to the foolish and shines glorious to those which eyes to see and ears to hear it's tune. ta ta

Just curious, have you ever read the Bible cover to cover? No cheating now....I'm talking every, single, solitary word, all in a row from beginning to end, over the course of how many days it takes to finish it. I spent 50 years as a devout Christian and 20 years as a Sunday School teacher, Christian Education Director and member of the vestry before I did just that. I used to hold classes to teach other Sunday School teachers. After reading it cover to cover, I realized that I had spent my life believing in something that I didn't really believe. Anyone who reads it cover to cover, as you suggest, realizes that there is just too much in the book that cannot be true. God cannot be pro-genocide; God cannot be a jealous, petty despot, God cannot be anti-women, and God cannot have said half the things that the Bible pretends God says. People are beginning to read their Bibles in a way that the older generation was never taught to do....read every word of it. And they don't like what they read. That's why the religion is failing, and that's why it must change. Peace

 

[davidthegreek]

Well, Christianity, as it is taught traditionally now, bears little resemblance to the religion Jesus taught and practiced. Even if we don't take "dying" into account, it should still change back to what it was!

agreed. But how do you personally mean that?

 

[davidthegreek]

If you wish to know what Christianity teaches, then read the Bible.

If you would like more orthodox (in this case meaning faithful to what has always been accepted) Christian authors, might I suggest:
John Stott
Ajith Fernando
NT Wright
John Piper

A very entertaining and thought provoking speaker on sound Christian doctrine is Francis Chan. I'd suggest you look up his 'Balance Beam" message on YouTube

I don't know about the others but how is John Piper an Orthodox? He is a reformed baptist.

 

[Katzpur]

You mean inerrancy? Good question.

People usually quote this verse to support it:

2Ti 3:16-17 All Scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

But when that was written the Bible as we know didn't even exist.

Not only that, the phrase "all scripture" is so nebulous that the above passage is really meaningless. What does "all scripture" even mean in this context? Mormons would say that it means the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. Other Christians would say it means "the Bible," since "the Bible" is obviously the only scripture. They really read that passage as, "The Bible is given by inspiration of God..." But that's not what the passage actually says. Furthermore, all scripture might have been given by inspiration, but that doesn't mean that all scripture has been transcribed, translated or interpreted by inspiration of God.

 

[love]

From what I've read of the book, it seems to be quite the opposite. It doesn't seem to want to go back to what Jesus taught -- it seems to want to go past it, in some respects, ans massively change.

No virgin birth, no Jesus as saviour (seriously), and God as "the ground of being", as opposed to as widely understood.

I don.t know who is attempting to make these changes, but who ever they are they should pick another name because Christian is already taken.