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Your opinion on Why Christianity Must Change Or Die?
- Thread starter Breathe
- Start date
nazz
Doubting Thomas
Not only that, the phrase "all scripture" is so nebulous that the above passage is really meaningless. What does "all scripture" even mean in this context? Mormons would say that it means the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. Other Christians would say it means "the Bible," since "the Bible" is obviously the only scripture.They really read that passage as, "The Bible is given by inspiration of God..." But that's not what the passage actually says. Furthermore, all scripture might have been given by inspiration, but that doesn't mean that all scripture has been transcribed, translated or interpreted by inspiration of God.
Agreed
AdityaMookerjee
Member
The question is, what is the most important significance in your religion? There were teachings ascribed to Christ. Your religion is supposed to be on those.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
Christianity must focus on the attributes of Jesus, not traditional church doctrine and certain parts of the Bible to the exclusion of others. It's not the message, it's the wrong emphasis that's the problem.
I personally think Spong is an articulate, intelligent man.
His book is very good and, to be honest, almost convinced me to go back to Christianity.
His book is very good and, to be honest, almost convinced me to go back to Christianity.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
What stopped you?
My views on Christianity are very much Unitarian: a belief in a non-divine Christ, a more Panentheistic concept God and an emphasis on humanity rather than the afterlife. There are certainly Unitarian Churches (I actually go to a Unitarian Universalist church), but are they really "christian" in the modern sense?
I've gone to traditional churches recently and feel no connection whatsoever. I don't feel the holy spirit, the warmth of a community or God in general. I could find more Unitarian churches, but I'm not sure if I will find a connection there either.
In the end, I think I can respect Christ and have a concept of God without being a Christian. And that's alright by me.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
I hold a panentheistic God-concept, and regard Jesus in a very unitarian way as well; why would they not be Christian, if a Unitarian could be considered a Christian?
I can understand why, if you couldn't, though -- but to be honest, I go to an Anglican church most Sundays and participate in a local Alpha group, and generally I'm fine -- although the occasional song or whatever will cause me a problem in its wording, although this is going beyond the bounds and off the topic of the DIR a bit.
Careful not to blend the two Unitarians together as they are always or exactly the same thing depending on context.
Unitarian Universalist Churches can be Christian in nature... but it's not a Christian sect per se.
Although it's roots are there most certainly, they aren't limited to it.
How 'Christian' the churches feel is largely up to the body attending...
On the other hand:
Unitarianism is also used theologically in the sense of 'as opposed to Trinitarianism'.
And Universalism is also a salvation theology within Christianity as well as other religions.
So in closing:
Basically one could be a Unitarian Christian who attends a Unitarian Universalist Church,
whom will likely be a part of the UUA/Unitarian-Universalist Association.
But a Unitarian-Universalist Church might not have one member who relates to Christianity in any way what so ever.
Churches in the UUA have a lot of autonomy to meet the individual congregations needs.
I've attended a UUA church for 5 years in my life, when that was my best option for church,
and I went so far as to sit on the board at the one I attended.
If you have anymore UUA questions let me know, but the website ought to be pretty useful.
And as for Unitarian Christianity... Odion and myself can also be helpful in that regard.
:namaste
Unitarian Universalist Churches can be Christian in nature... but it's not a Christian sect per se.
Although it's roots are there most certainly, they aren't limited to it.
How 'Christian' the churches feel is largely up to the body attending...
On the other hand:
Unitarianism is also used theologically in the sense of 'as opposed to Trinitarianism'.
And Universalism is also a salvation theology within Christianity as well as other religions.
So in closing:
Basically one could be a Unitarian Christian who attends a Unitarian Universalist Church,
whom will likely be a part of the UUA/Unitarian-Universalist Association.
But a Unitarian-Universalist Church might not have one member who relates to Christianity in any way what so ever.
Churches in the UUA have a lot of autonomy to meet the individual congregations needs.
I've attended a UUA church for 5 years in my life, when that was my best option for church,
and I went so far as to sit on the board at the one I attended.
If you have anymore UUA questions let me know, but the website ought to be pretty useful.
And as for Unitarian Christianity... Odion and myself can also be helpful in that regard.
:namaste
This interests me. Can you explain what you exactly mean by seeing Jesus in a Unitarian way?and regard Jesus in a very unitarian way as well; why would they not be Christian, if a Unitarian could be considered a Christian?
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
The kind of Unitarian I mean is seeing Jesus as man and prophet (or, if one prefers, buddha, guru, etc, the terminology matters not IMHO), not as a divine incarnation of God on Earth -- well, no more God than all of us are from a panentheistic perspective -- but for me, at the same time, his devotion, love, and knowledge of God made him appear to be this very idea of God on Earth and in the flesh; "if God came to Earth, he'd be like Jesus", in summary.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
What was the "service" like? I went to a UU church a few weeks ago, and it was so generic, it was like a committee meeting, not a worship service. Or maybe worship isn't what they do.
ZooGirl02
Well-Known Member
I have never read it. I am definitely not a fan of Spong. I know he is very much a liberal Christian.
That said, I think he is referring to Christian doctrines but I am not sure if that is what he is referring to or not. If so, he is definitely wrong. Doctrine cannot change. Doctrine as revealed to us God has never changed in the Catholic Church and will never change because God never changes. Doctrine and dogma can develop but not change. For more on the development of dogma, see this article:
Can Dogma Develop? | Catholic Answers
That said, I think he is referring to Christian doctrines but I am not sure if that is what he is referring to or not. If so, he is definitely wrong. Doctrine cannot change. Doctrine as revealed to us God has never changed in the Catholic Church and will never change because God never changes. Doctrine and dogma can develop but not change. For more on the development of dogma, see this article:
Can Dogma Develop? | Catholic Answers
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
*whistles innocently while correcting it*I just noticed this says much change
John Martin
Active Member
Christianity needs to grow from the exclusive Christ to the Inclusive Christ, from half truth of Christ to the fullness of the Truth of Christ.
Christianity as it is presented all these two thousand years, is not presenting the fullness of Truth that Jesus announced, but only half truth.
Jesus vision was that there is only one God, who is greater than religions and human beings; human beings, as the image and likeness of God, are greater than religions; religions are meant to be at the service of human beings and not human beings at the service of religions. His message was that human beings in their deepest level are greater than religions and they need to discover this truth and say that 'I am the way, the truth and the life'.
Jesus made God as the God of whole of humanity. Christianity made him only as the God of Christians.
Jesus Christ broke down the wall of division and created one God,one creation and one humanity. Christianity created a new religion in the name of Jesus, and made him a sectarian head of a religion.
Jesus said, I am the light of the world and you are the light of the world. Christianity said Jesus is the light of the world and everyone has to follow this light.
Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and life' as a possibility to everyone but Christianity said, Jesus Christ is the only way,the truth and the life and everyone has to follow him.
Jesus said that 'the Father and I are one' as a possibility to everyone, but Christianity has made it: only Jesus and God are one and everyone has to worship Jesus.
In this way Christianity created a religion in the name of Jesus and made it an exclusive religion. Now it needs to grow from exclusive Christ to inclusive Christ. The future Christianity would be:
I am the light of the world; you are the light of the world.
I am the way,the truth and the life; you are the way,the truth and the life.
The Father and I are one; you and the Father are one.
There is only one God and everyone and everything is in this one God. There is no one outside God.
Christ embraced all humanity within. No one is outside Christ. Everyone is invited to grow into the God experience that Jesus had. That would be the future Christianity. The Christianity we have now is only half of the truth of Christ. Hence it needs to grow into fullness of the Truth of Christ.Otherwise it may become irrelevant in the future.
Christianity as it is presented all these two thousand years, is not presenting the fullness of Truth that Jesus announced, but only half truth.
Jesus vision was that there is only one God, who is greater than religions and human beings; human beings, as the image and likeness of God, are greater than religions; religions are meant to be at the service of human beings and not human beings at the service of religions. His message was that human beings in their deepest level are greater than religions and they need to discover this truth and say that 'I am the way, the truth and the life'.
Jesus made God as the God of whole of humanity. Christianity made him only as the God of Christians.
Jesus Christ broke down the wall of division and created one God,one creation and one humanity. Christianity created a new religion in the name of Jesus, and made him a sectarian head of a religion.
Jesus said, I am the light of the world and you are the light of the world. Christianity said Jesus is the light of the world and everyone has to follow this light.
Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and life' as a possibility to everyone but Christianity said, Jesus Christ is the only way,the truth and the life and everyone has to follow him.
Jesus said that 'the Father and I are one' as a possibility to everyone, but Christianity has made it: only Jesus and God are one and everyone has to worship Jesus.
In this way Christianity created a religion in the name of Jesus and made it an exclusive religion. Now it needs to grow from exclusive Christ to inclusive Christ. The future Christianity would be:
I am the light of the world; you are the light of the world.
I am the way,the truth and the life; you are the way,the truth and the life.
The Father and I are one; you and the Father are one.
There is only one God and everyone and everything is in this one God. There is no one outside God.
Christ embraced all humanity within. No one is outside Christ. Everyone is invited to grow into the God experience that Jesus had. That would be the future Christianity. The Christianity we have now is only half of the truth of Christ. Hence it needs to grow into fullness of the Truth of Christ.Otherwise it may become irrelevant in the future.
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