Your People

[exchemist]

When talking to a person online, you get to know them without the factors of their environment coming up. You don't get to see whether the person is messy or tidy, rich or poor, unless they disclose that information. You can't see what neighborhood they live in, or what food is in their cupboard(unless they tell you).

I think when a person talks online, unless they specifically state otherwise, its easy to assume the people in their 'corner' are somewhat like them. That they must share values, or be reasonably tempered similarly(unless otherwise stated). Is this true for you? Are your 'people' much like you?

By 'your people', I'm only asking about the ones you chose, not family that you were born into(or that were born to you), unless you feel you chose to connect with one of them that overlaps into 'close friend' territory. Spouses(unless your marriage was arranged), close friends, and other long term relations... Are they much like you, or not?

I think most of my friends have at least common interests with me, because of the circumstances in which I met them: university, work, rowing, singing - or just neighbours. That tends to make them from a similar social background. Though I have a slightly wider range of kinds of people who are friends, though not close ones, through the church choir.

 

[JustGeorge]

Maybe it's time to reveal they came to dinner with me and my son, last weekend.....

Perhaps entertaining a lawyer and a theology student is not that much out of the comfort zone for me these days, though, seeing as my son is currently studying ancient history.

That sounds like a load of fun!

Take a wild guess

No. No one's like you.

(The world couldn't handle two of you, anyways.)

 

[Ella S.]

I tend to see the differences I have with other people more than what we share. When I meet people, I tend to expect them to be radically different from me, since I know that they are (generally) statistically more likely to be different from me than they are to be similar to me.

When I do discover what seem to be similarities, I'm not very quick to assume that we're as similar in that respect as we appear to be. For instance, if I meet someone else who claims to follow Enlightenment philosophy, I am more likely to think they're a utilitarian or believe in an authoritarian social contract than that they adhere to Socratic virtue ethics like I do. If they explicitly state they are a Stoic, I'm more likely to think they're probably a homophobic conservative, even though I consider myself to be aligned with Stoic values and I'm a pro-LGBTQ+ leftist.

In an international English-speaking forum, I tend to think most posters are going to be non-American since most English speakers with internet access live outside of America. I've noticed many other Americans tend to assume that everyone is American, which is strange to me.

And so on, for every relevant point of data.

I don't consider myself to have any people in my corner, either. I don't consider myself to be a part of any group. Even on RF, while I tend to agree a lot with the other atheists here, there are many things we disagree on and I often find their presentation to be, uh, not to my tastes. I don't feel like we're a part of the same "group" in any meaningful way.

As for "my people," in hindsight, maybe I shouldn't have responded to this post. The way you're defining them, I don't think I have any "people." I don't feel close to anyone. I'm rather incapable of that level of human sentiment. I tend to cut contact with people when I think they've become too emotionally intimate with me because I know that I can't reciprocate, so it seems like I'm morally obligated to avoid leading them on only to hurt them later.

There are people that I will seek out for one-on-one discussions, some of which I have known for years now. These people are probably the closest I get to friends, but I have a decent amount of detachment with all of them. They do tend to be introverted, cerebral people, which I think is fair to say is a description that matches me, too. I find that those people are more willing to have the kinds of discussions that interest me and they tend to be more understanding of my asociality. "Birds of a feather flock together," after all.

I actually don't know very much about them and I haven't even seen most of their faces or heard their voices. That's simply not the kind of discussions we have. We talk more about philosophy, gothic art, and technology. The ones that I have seen the faces of are the ones that I talk about makeup and fashion with, so their appearance became relevant to one of our conversations.

Out of the people that I have seen, they seem to vary in appearance slightly less than I would expect from a normal distribution. Somehow, without knowing what they look like, I have still ended up with a statistically significant number of people that I speak to who share my ethnicity. This disappoints me, because it seems to indicate that I am not as objective or cosmopolitan as I wish I was (eta: although there still is quite a bit of diversity there). I also tend to befriend people in the same general class as me (i.e., poor), but that's partially because I find people who make more money than me to be incredibly annoying with their first-world problems.

On the other hand, I tend to be the "token chick" in tech spaces. I've had people tell me that they thought I was a dude and other people seriously ask me if I'm trans or "a trap." I don't know how common that is, but I know a few women who pretend to be men online to avoid that sexist attention. It doesn't really bother me, but I do think less of the people who say that sort of stuff. I wonder sometimes how many other people in these spaces are also women and are simply less willing to deal with the consequences of being openly female. Because of that, I don't actually know the real gender ratio of the people I speak to, but from the ones that I've seen pictures of and have been open with me, it seems that I tend to have about an even spread of women, men, and enbies.

I don't know how I ended up with so many nonbinary friends. It's another interesting statistical quirk. I suspect that it's because I'm autistic, most of my interests are ones that have a higher portion of autistic people involved in them, and autistic people have a much higher chance of being nonbinary. So it might actually be that we are similar in the sense of being on the spectrum, we're just different when it comes to gender.

This was a much longer post than I was expecting, but I wanted to be thorough.

 

[Ella S.]

They come from all continents... except Antarctica (well, unless one of you has been secretly living there the whole time!).

I seriously looked into getting a job that would pay me room and board in Antarctica. Most of them were research roles. I thought it would be nice to go somewhere cold and isolated. There were some job offers I found where employers were practically begging anyone with two legs to go there.

Then I found out that Antarctic bases have enforced socialization times in an effort to keep the people living there sane. I would have to live with a small, tight-knit team of people that would force me to frequently interact with them in a non-professional environment. And I would most likely spend most of the time underground, with proper heating and ventilation, so it wouldn't even be that cold. In fact, I probably wouldn't even have a good view of the polar snow, either.

I'm sure you're used to what it feels like to be around people who lack empathy. From what I can tell, people with empathy find the lack of empathy to be disgusting, maybe even outright disturbing and/or threatening.

As someone without empathy, people with empathy make me uncomfortable, too. They feel like they're trying to smother me in over-familiar emotions and like they almost enjoy wasting my time with inefficient minutiae. In a claustrophobic and hot underground space, that sounds like Hell to me.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Husband, he is all i could wish for. We mesh completely, no more to say.

I left my close friends behind when we moved to France, though we visit them and vice versa. 1 or 2 weeks a year just isn't the same.

All but 2 were (still are) pretty much me cloned. Left leaning artists with a fondness for cats, other animals and nature. Bohemian comes to mind now although I've never thought of them as such before.
Of the 2, one died of a drug related problem, i told him so but would he listen? The other is as religious as you can get, works for her church (actually had her own church at one time), she leans so far right she bends at the ankles, we have had ding ding religious or political arguments and she remains my oldest best friend.

In France I've made a few good friends, funnily enough they are mostly much older than me. This area tends to grow them to pushing 100. The first person to welcome us to the village died a few years ago at age 104. Another friends funeral tomorrow... sigh. Unfortunately half of those I've become close to over the 8 years (plus 4 years of visits) have died.

It's looking like I'll have to search out some new people soon.

Does France have an ageing population generally do you know, or or just in rural areas?

I’ll be doing a bit of a tour next year, visiting my partner’s friends and family in Rouen, Montpellier and the Ardeche. Contemplating retiring to France, but me leave London? Not sure I could…

 

[ChristineM]

@RestlessSoul

In rural areas people are older than urban

The average age for the population is 44, and think the uk its 40, indicating there are more older people on France.

There are also more retired people here beating the UK by a couple of %

The population is more mobile, as soon as they earn qualifications people head for bigger towns (or other countries) in search of work and don't return until retirement which explains the difference in average age between rural and urban areas.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I seriously looked into getting a job that would pay me room and board in Antarctica. Most of them were research roles. I thought it would be nice to go somewhere cold and isolated. There were some job offers I found where employers were practically begging anyone with two legs to go there.

Then I found out that Antarctic bases have enforced socialization times in an effort to keep the people living there sane. I would have to live with a small, tight-knit team of people that would force me to frequently interact with them in a non-professional environment. And I would most likely spend most of the time underground, with proper heating and ventilation, so it wouldn't even be that cold. In fact, I probably wouldn't even have a good view of the polar snow, either.

That's fascinating. The description reminds me of the atmosphere of The Thing, especially because of its depiction of isolation and remoteness from the rest of the world.

I think an upside for most people would probably be the quiet and the relative lack of pollution, but even these wouldn't outweigh the isolation for me. The enforced socialization also sounds like a double-edged sword, since it would be with a very limited group of people whom one doesn't get to choose.

I'm sure you're used to what it feels like to be around people who lack empathy. From what I can tell, people with empathy find the lack of empathy to be disgusting, maybe even outright disturbing and/or threatening.

For me, it mainly depends on how it manifests, and the ways I have seen it manifest in the words and actions of most unempathetic people I have met have been invariably alienating or disturbing to me, yes—and in two cases, the lack of empathy was clearly resulting in a threat, and I had to distance myself for my own safety. Online, a few of the unempathetic people I have talked to have told me they try to use logic and respect for boundaries to make up for their inability to feel others' emotions.

I understand that some people who were born with or naturally ended up with little ability to feel empathy strive to live ethically and respectfully toward others, and I feel less uncomfortable around them than unempathetic people who don't care at all to foster such an ethical and respectful way of life. There seems to me a spectrum extending from those who strive to live ethically all the way to those who glorify selfishness, exploitation of others, and lack of concern for others' rights or even their safety (and I realize that many people who are supposedly capable of feeling empathy glorify these things too).

Ultimately, though, while I feel differently around each of them depending on their values and how their lack of empathy manifests, our differences in personality have constantly been so deep and far-reaching that I just don't see a closer, voluntary personal association (such as a friendship as opposed to merely working together) ever working out well for either of us. I also don't feel the same level of connection with them as I can with someone who has empathy or values it.

As someone without empathy, people with empathy make me uncomfortable, too. They feel like they're trying to smother me in over-familiar emotions and like they almost enjoy wasting my time with inefficient minutiae. In a claustrophobic and hot underground space, that sounds like Hell to me.

I can imagine incompatibility arising in various interactions due to these differences in personality traits, yes (as it does for me, like I said in this post). I'm glad the internet gives us a wider range of people to interact with if we want to, at least.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I don't choose people. I don't have a separate subgroup of people that I choose to associate with. I don't consider any of the attributes you list in your first paragraph. Everyone is different, rich, poor, tidy, slobs, privileged, or unprivileged. I strike up conversations with random people and talk to them as if I know them. Some people will gravitate to me, others will be repelled. People tend to choose me (or not) rather than the other way around, and I'm okay with that. Everyone I've met creates their own version of me. But as I see it, you're all "my people."

Are your 'people' much like you?

From my perspective, they are me.

 

[bobhikes]

When talking to a person online, you get to know them without the factors of their environment coming up. You don't get to see whether the person is messy or tidy, rich or poor, unless they disclose that information. You can't see what neighborhood they live in, or what food is in their cupboard(unless they tell you).

I think when a person talks online, unless they specifically state otherwise, its easy to assume the people in their 'corner' are somewhat like them. That they must share values, or be reasonably tempered similarly(unless otherwise stated). Is this true for you? Are your 'people' much like you?

By 'your people', I'm only asking about the ones you chose, not family that you were born into(or that were born to you), unless you feel you chose to connect with one of them that overlaps into 'close friend' territory. Spouses(unless your marriage was arranged), close friends, and other long term relations... Are they much like you, or not?

I like variety and chaos so my friends and even my family are not much like me. I find it uncomfortable when associating with groups of like thinking people.

 

[SalixIncendium]

What a beautiful picture! (and I love your necklace!)

Didn't even notice the necklace. I was taken by the smile. I don't think I've ever see @Rival looking that happy before.

 

[JustGeorge]

I like variety and chaos so my friends and even my family are not much like me. I find it uncomfortable when associating with groups of like thinking people.

Well, family you don't generally get to choose.

I can't say I desired variety and chaos, but of the two people that I 'picked'(my spouse and only in person friend), neither is much like me.

My husband is different temperament, different interests, different priorities, etc. My friend and I have a shared interest in religion(which I will say my husband shares, but isn't as active with it anymore), but very different lives and very different temperaments.

I had a friend who moved about a decade back... I was quite fond of her. We had nothing alike. Except our very rude sense of humor. I remember a fond conversation we shared, in which she was venting about her roommate wearing her clothes. I told her "I'd never do that. Your clothes are hideous." Rather than being offended, she said "I know! You wouldn't do that! And I wouldn't take your CDs(a problem I had with friends), because I hate your music." I was also comforted by that, and we went through a long list of things we'd never do to the other, based on their terrible taste. It was a friendship strengthening conversation.

I grew up with a friend who was just like me. We'd often choose and wear the same clothes without telling the other. Same music, same foods, very similar values. That's the only time I ever had a friend like me. Otherwise, I don't tend to meet many that are made similarly. I have to say, I liked it a lot, and I was saddened when that friendship grew apart.

 

[bobhikes]

Well, family you don't generally get to choose.

I can't say I desired variety and chaos, but of the two people that I 'picked'(my spouse and only in person friend), neither is much like me.

My husband is different temperament, different interests, different priorities, etc. My friend and I have a shared interest in religion(which I will say my husband shares, but isn't as active with it anymore), but very different lives and very different temperaments.

I had a friend who moved about a decade back... I was quite fond of her. We had nothing alike. Except our very rude sense of humor. I remember a fond conversation we shared, in which she was venting about her roommate wearing her clothes. I told her "I'd never do that. Your clothes are hideous." Rather than being offended, she said "I know! You wouldn't do that! And I wouldn't take your CDs(a problem I had with friends), because I hate your music." I was also comforted by that, and we went through a long list of things we'd never do to the other, based on their terrible taste. It was a friendship strengthening conversation.

I grew up with a friend who was just like me. We'd often choose and wear the same clothes without telling the other. Same music, same foods, very similar values. That's the only time I ever had a friend like me. Otherwise, I don't tend to meet many that are made similarly. I have to say, I liked it a lot, and I was saddened when that friendship grew apart.

Most people after they get to know me refer to me as weird and I thank them for it. To be my friend you only need to not lie or steal from me and enjoy conversation. My best friend is pretty much my opposite. When we were in school, we bonded through playing sports but even then, we only had one team we rooted for in common.

 

[JustGeorge]

Most people after they get to know me refer to me as weird and I thank them for it. To be my friend you only need to not lie or steal from me and enjoy conversation. My best friend is pretty much my opposite. When we were in school, we bonded through playing sports but even then, we only had one team we rooted for in common.

Yup, yup. Lying, stealing, and manipulation, all friendship breakers.

 

[YmirGF]

Are your 'people' much like you?

Yes and no, and I'm going to leave it at that. This topic is a potential minefield for me, and it's probably best to stay away from too many details.

 

[Father Heathen]

I've been mistaken for a Western person online more times than I can count. We're like mirror images!

My favorite was when someone called me a "British leftist extremist" but then revised their accusation to "American" because of the way I spell words.

To really throw people off, whenever you speak in English you should do so in a thick southern U.S. accent.

 

[Rival]

Maybe it's time to reveal they came to dinner with me and my son, last weekend.....

Perhaps entertaining a lawyer and a theology student is not that much out of the comfort zone for me these days, though, seeing as my son is currently studying ancient history.

And a very good dinner indeed.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

When talking to a person online, you get to know them without the factors of their environment coming up. You don't get to see whether the person is messy or tidy, rich or poor, unless they disclose that information. You can't see what neighborhood they live in, or what food is in their cupboard(unless they tell you).

I think when a person talks online, unless they specifically state otherwise, its easy to assume the people in their 'corner' are somewhat like them. That they must share values, or be reasonably tempered similarly(unless otherwise stated). Is this true for you? Are your 'people' much like you?

By 'your people', I'm only asking about the ones you chose, not family that you were born into(or that were born to you), unless you feel you chose to connect with one of them that overlaps into 'close friend' territory. Spouses(unless your marriage was arranged), close friends, and other long term relations... Are they much like you, or not?

Honestly, it seems that I often gravitate toward "scene" people (emo, punk, etc, etc). They're often more left-wing, and from what I have been able to tell in the past, are even more prone to being computer programmers like me.

As for whether I'm always accepted by these people myself? It really depends on the people, and the crowd. But sometimes, they're very accepting of me. Other times, not so much.

 

[exchemist]

And a very good dinner indeed.

And so was the company.........

 

[JustGeorge]

Honestly, it seems that I often gravitate toward "scene" people (emo, punk, etc, etc). They're often more left-wing, and from what I have been able to tell in the past, are even more prone to being computer programmers like me.

As for whether I'm always accepted by these people myself? It really depends on the people, and the crowd. But sometimes, they're very accepting of me. Other times, not so much.

I had the experience in my younger years of attracting folks from the punk/Goth scene(because that's what I looked like), but usually being rejected, because I was(and am) very unexciting. I found the anime nerd type to be a better fit. Even though I wasn't into anime myself, I was usually 'safe' with them(from bullying/ridicule).

But, now I'm older, and it seems I just attract cats.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I had the experience in my younger years of attracting folks from the punk/Goth scene(because that's what I looked like), but usually being rejected, because I was(and am) very unexciting. I found the anime nerd type to be a better fit. Even though I wasn't into anime myself, I was usually 'safe' with them(from bullying/ridicule).

But, now I'm older, and it seems I just attract cats.

I'd say that although the anime nerd type can be cool, I've also seen online circles these days where they take things really really far (multiple people role-playing cartoon anime dogs, developing their own language, etc). However, I probably don't consider that the norm, and consider most OK.