Your position about Islam

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Note that I will be pasting this from a reply in another thread as I faced lots of these questions,


This particular verse you quoted is talking about a certain group of disbelievers who made a treaty with the prophet peace be upon him but broke it. You can see that from the start of the chapter.
1 [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.
2 So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.
3 And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.
4 Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
5 And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
6 And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.
7 How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
8 How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.

However, as for combating, the rules in Islam is clear through other verses.

Islam is a system of life which tells you how you are supposed to live your life. So it provides answers or a pattern of thinking/response to every single situation you would face. If verses were removed, it will cease to be perfect and it would open people to retaliate the way they want and not the way God wants them too. Since Islam is a complete way of life it is normal to find verses where it tells you how to react when you are facing a war because regardless of whether we like that or not, it is part of life.


2:190 Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

2:191 And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

2:192 And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

2:193
Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

2:194
[Fighting in] the sacred month is for [aggression committed in] the sacred month, and for [all] violations is legal retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

If you look at the conditions to fight those than you will find,
1- They are the ones who started the fight.
2- They transgressed,.
3- Third they are the ones who expelled you out of your home.
4- regardless of all that, if they stopped, you have to stop too.


I don't think there exist anyone who has these ethics when it comes to war.

War in Islam is offensive war
War is not healthy ways of life
The provisions of the verses of the Koran war
Do not include those facts that got
But laws adhered to by Muslims in every time and every place
This is one of the Islamic legal rules fixed
In other words,
The Koran is the constitution of Muslims
The creation of military force and armament of the laws of Islam
Here's the verse of the Koran
They and prepared them what you can of power
Are the arms of the necessities of life ???
When the Education holds the seeds of peace
He is a good education
But when carrying swords education and the education of the fighting
I think that education is not valid

 

[JoStories]

slam is a system of life which tells you how you are supposed to live your life. So it provides answers or a pattern of thinking/response to every single situation you would face. If verses were removed, it will cease to be perfect and it would open people to retaliate the way they want and not the way God wants them too. Since Islam is a complete way of life it is normal to find verses where it tells you how to react when you are facing a war because regardless of whether we like that or not, it is part of life.

Yet the verses are speaking of 'unbelievers', and not combatants in war. So while I understand that Islam is a way of life, it also advocates making others, by force or through death, to convert to your faith. No matter how one slices that, its flat out wrong.

 

[genesis9]

OP Your Position About Islam
It is the third of my books and it points to the first

 

[genesis9]

At last

We welcome you in dialogue
But honesty is the key to the truth
When he declares that the Koran is the word of God, you must prove that you
And when I tell you that it is not the Word of God
I offer you the evidence from the Koran and logic also
This is the style of dialogue which is not hatred
But dialogue and dialogue means honesty

 

[Sabour]

Yet the verses are speaking of 'unbelievers', and not combatants in war. So while I understand that Islam is a way of life, it also advocates making others, by force or through death, to convert to your faith. No matter how one slices that, its flat out wrong.

That is not the case.

Through reading of the verses before, as I quoted in my previous response.

Take this set of verses for example

2:190 Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

2:191 And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

2:192 And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

2:193
Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

2:194
[Fighting in] the sacred month is for [aggression committed in] the sacred month, and for [all] violations is legal retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.


Verses from 190 to 194 are talking about the very same people. Verse 190 says Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you. Isn't "those who fight you" enough to show that they are combatants?

Additionally, for the clear understanding of the verses one should refer to the context of the verse. Context of the verse is not only known by reading the verses before or after. Sometimes one has to refer to hadith to understand the meaning of the verses. Some other times, one has to refer to sholars from the earlier centuries and their explanations of the Quraan in which their efforts were enormous in terms of understanding when, where and why every verse was revealed to our prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

Additionally, Quraan and Islam are to be taken as a whole and one can not take parts of it and neglect others. If implicitly those verses imply that you should covert people by force, and other verses explicitly says that this is wrong, than explicit statements always win. I am talking about the many verses which explicitly state that one can't force others to Islam, such as "there is no compulsion in religion"

 

[Sabour]

At last

Can you please state what you like about that in your own words? I have some trouble understanding what the member of that reply is stating.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Additionally, Quraan and Islam are to be taken as a whole and one can not take parts of it and neglect others. If implicitly those verses imply that you should covert people by force, and other verses explicitly says that this is wrong, than explicit statements always win. I am talking about the many verses which explicitly state that one can't force others to Islam, such as "there is no compulsion in religion"

The Koran and Islam can not understand this way
Because the verses in the Koran is not sequential
But if you want to understand the Koran must be understood and copied the copyist
Because the mandates of peace in Mecca have been canceled in the Federated States of fighting in Medina
Private and your explanation to the verses of the Koran means you are not a Muslim
The legitimacy of the texts of the Koran can not be repealed You
But there is only one way to reject the Koran
Koran many contradictions
And it can be fired by the dual personality
Or schizophrenia and what is defined in psychology
Muslims believe that the Koran is a mercy to the worlds
But at the same time he believes that he must fight Worlds
The teachings of the Koran makes man a dual personality and mentally ill
My respect for you

 

[Muffled]

It's not a problem confined to Shia Islam. Islamic State is a Salafi/Wahabbi movement. Salafism & Wahabbism are both from the Sunni side of Islam.

I don't believe war is a belief of Wahabbism but simply a means to an end. However I do believe there are evil practices contrary to the Qu'ran stemming from Wahabbism. The Bible says the heart is desperately wicked so it isn't necessarily stemming from the devil but I wouldn't rule out his participation.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

I don't believe war is a belief of Wahabbism but simply a means to an end. However I do believe there are evil practices contrary to the Qu'ran stemming from Wahabbism. The Bible says the heart is desperately wicked so it isn't necessarily stemming from the devil but I wouldn't rule out his participation.

Wahhabism is a modern school appeared before almost 200 years
But Islam appeared 1,400 years ago
And Wahhabi teachings derived from the Quran and Quranic verses
Wahhabism was before the Ottomans
So there is education and pillars in Wahhabism is the verses of the Koran
The popular proverb
There is no smoke without ash
Yes Koran is the solid foundation to the Wahhabi Islamic sects and all the moderate and centrist

 

[RAYYAN]

Open a special theme and enter a dialogue with you and prove to you that the Quran is not the word of God

You are the one who is challenging this, why don't you do it!!

 

[RAYYAN]

I wish it was just plain ignorance, but it aren't.

What are you 8!!!!
LOL

 

[genesis9]

War in Islam is offensive war
War is not healthy ways of life
The provisions of the verses of the Koran war
Do not include those facts that got
But laws adhered to by Muslims in every time and every place
This is one of the Islamic legal rules fixed
In other words,
The Koran is the constitution of Muslims
The creation of military force and armament of the laws of Islam
Here's the verse of the Koran
They and prepared them what you can of power
Are the arms of the necessities of life ???
When the Education holds the seeds of peace
He is a good education
But when carrying swords education and the education of the fighting
I think that education is not valid

wha da meen

 

[RAYYAN]

There is no smoke without ash

you mean to say "there is no fire without smoke! LOL

Why don't you just stop embarrassing yourself!

 

[psychoslice]

What are you 8!!!!
LOL

Ha, your so funny.

 

[RAYYAN]

Ha, your so funny.

Thank you
but you didn't answer the question,
Are you 8?
if not, why your posts are childish?

 

[psychoslice]

Thank you
but you didn't answer the question,
Are you 8?
if not, why your posts are childish?

They are only childish to you, because I don't meet your wishes, you are set in your ways and nothing will ever change that, that to me is childish.

 

[cambridge79]

1- What is your position about Islam?

2- Do you have any questions that you would like having answers to?

3- Why do you think Islam is wrong?

1 - my position is the same i have towards all other religions: i don't see islam more or less interesting than any other religion, more or less revealing than any other religion, more or less true than any other religion. I think they should be studied to understand the men that held those beliefs but they're not good to me to obtain a better understanding of reality itself.
Actually now that i think about it i see islam being a little more childish than the other for the following reason:
being "the final revelation" to them means they're the more complete of all, the more entitled.
to me the fact that they're "the final revelation" means they more or less copied what was already around and adapted it to arabian societies in order to introduce a monotheism that could work in that region too, just like it happens all the times with all cultures when they get in contact and influece each others. Talking about our current times, i think they are definitely lacking self-scrutiny in respect of other major religions. when i talk to muslims they don't seem more enlighted than christians or jews, they simply seem less prone to doubt themselves no matter if what they tell makes sense or not. Also i have no clue about states where openly criticizing christianity dogmas or jewish dogmas you end up in jail but i can produce a long list of states where criticizing muslim dogmas you get arrested.

2 - i have one. Islam seem to be a decentralized religion ( compared for example to christianity ( where you have figures like the popes or buddhism with the dalai lamah ). So the kuran is open to direct study and interpretations by people. When you have a group of people telling "islam tells us to do this" and another group telling "no no, islam tells us to do the opposite" and none of the two groups can convince the other, how can you say who is the true muslims among the two?

3 - i think is wrong for the same reason why i think all religions are wrong: religions praise blind faith and condamn doubt, i feel an healthy mind should need exactly the opposite. All religions make claims but they can't provide evidences of their claims, they always say what pleases god or not ( but god never give the courtesy to answer back ) they always say what happens after life ( but nobody ever takes the disturb to come back and tell us if they're right or wrong ). All they can do is quote from the scriptures. Now the kuran may be "holy" to you but for me it has no value, is just a book among the others. I've tried to read it, never went till the end cause i don't find it interesting or appealing at all.
It may be special for a muslim cause since he was a baby he has been told by anyone he knew that the book is special, but for me it doesn't feel that way at all.
Maybe reading it in original arab language it sounds so beautiful that it inspires you ( i for example have tried to read the Dante Alighieri's divine comedy both the original italian and the english translation, the original italian is something spectacular, the english translation is not even worth reading ) but at the same time the very concepts translated are nothing that leaves me with the idea that something divine has been given to me.
Reading Socrates or Cartesius i feel i get so much more honestly.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

you mean to say "there is no fire without smoke! LOL

Why don't you just stop embarrassing yourself!

Developed today Thread Is the Koran is the word of God
Wait for your presence and your participation in Thread

 

[Jedster]

1- What is your position about Islam?
It is a pernicious teaching that has caused no end of harm because of it's claim to 'absolute truth'. I think the same about other religions that have the same claim.

2- Do you have any questions that you would like having answers to?
No, not on Islam. I asked all my questions many years ago when I spent time with Sunnis, Shias, Ahmadis & Quaran-alone ists.
Yes, but on Muslims: I understand the theological differences between Ahmadis and other Muslims, but I cannot comprehend the amount of persecution against them.
Don't you think it's about time that all the sects should accept Ahmadis as Muslim and stop this disgusting behaviour?

3- Why do you think Islam is wrong?
see above and I don't believe in Allah

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

1- What is your position about Islam?
It is a pernicious teaching that has caused no end of harm because of it's claim to 'absolute truth'. I think the same about other religions that have the same claim.

claim to 'absolute truth'
Yes Islam claims he owns the absolute truth
All means of violence and terrorism is used in order to consolidate this fact
This is the cause of Islamic terrorism globally
Muslim believes he is fighting and struggling for God
Here, God is weak and needs help Muslims to prove the truth of its existence
Allow me to tell you in all humility
That Christianity differs from this
Although the Christian believes that faith in Christ is the way of life is better
But Christianity is not the demands of the fighting and forced to accept this fact
So I think that the attitude of Christianity requires a focus on this aspect
Christianity in the texts written and transmitted since 2000 years no where
Coercion and fighting laws
Accept my thanks and my respect