Your understanding of the difference of sufism vs Islam

[Spirit of Light]

For you that are not a Muslim or a Sufi.

What is your understanding of the two teachings of Sufism vs Islam ?
Why do you feel the way you do toward the two teachings?

This thread is not about right/wrong between the two just what your view is.

 

[loverofhumanity]

For you that are not a Muslim or a Sufi.

What is your understanding of the two teachings of Sufism vs Islam ?
Why do you feel the way you do toward the two teachings?

This thread is not about right/wrong between the two just what your view is.

Thanks for educating us. A lot of Sufi quotes are in our literature and Baha’u’llah had the highest regard for them so I would very much like to know more.

What are the main Books? Are books like the Mathnavi Sufi? Much appreciated.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Thanks for educating us. A lot of Sufi quotes are in our literature and Baha’u’llah had the highest regard for them so I would very much like to know more.

What are the main Books? Are books like the Mathnavi Sufi? Much appreciated.

Sufism have the Quran and Hadiths too as mainstream Islam but the focus is more on the guidance than literarly word by word, but there are also esoteric teaching within each sufi tarika, and those teachings can seem different to non sufis.
Main focus is the heart and not the brain in sufism.

So for a sufi it is more about love and compassion for all humans and unconditional love toward Allah ( Allah within our heart)

There are more than 3000 different scriptures within different sufi tarika. So example Naksibendi tarika has their own individual teachings too.

 

[mangalavara]

What is your understanding of the two teachings of Sufism vs Islam ?

My understanding is that mainstream Islam is the exoteric aspect of the religion while Sufism is the esoteric aspect of the religion. I feel that mainstream Islam is more important to people who want to reach the ultimate goal through creed and deed whereas Sufism is more important to people who want to meet God right now and within.

Why do you feel the way you do toward the two teachings?

I've read books of poems by Rumi and Hafez. As well, I've read a few chapters from an introductory book on Sufism published by Shambhala Press.

 

[Spirit of Light]

My understanding is that mainstream Islam is the exoteric aspect of the religion while Sufism is the esoteric aspect of the religion. I feel that mainstream Islam is more important to people who want to reach the ultimate goal through creed and deed whereas Sufism is more important to people who want to meet God right now and within.



I've read books of poems by Rumi and Hafez. As well, I've read a few chapters from an introductory book on Sufism published by Shambhala Press.

Yes, your understanding is well

 

[loverofhumanity]

Sufism have the Quran and Hadiths too as mainstream Islam but the focus is more on the guidance than literarly word by word, but there are also esoteric teaching within each sufi tarika, and those teachings can seem different to non sufis.
Main focus is the heart and not the brain in sufism.

So for a sufi it is more about love and compassion for all humans and unconditional love toward Allah ( Allah within our heart)

There are more than 3000 different scriptures within different sufi tarika. So example Naksibendi tarika has their own individual teachings too.

What form if any, of meditation do sufis do? Is it the same as Buddhist meditation and isn’t there a Sufi dance of some kind?

 

[loverofhumanity]

This is very interesting. Are there many branches of Sufism and do they have special attire? The dance begins about 1 minute in.

 

[Spirit of Light]

What form if any, of meditation do sufis do? Is it the same as Buddhist meditation and isn’t there a Sufi dance of some kind?

The "meditation " is called zikr and is a deep state of remembrance of Allah through repeating one of Gods names or feature.
Not all sufi orders do dancing, butvyes you have the wirling dervish

 

[loverofhumanity]

My understanding is that mainstream Islam is the exoteric aspect of the religion while Sufism is the esoteric aspect of the religion. I feel that mainstream Islam is more important to people who want to reach the ultimate goal through creed and deed whereas Sufism is more important to people who want to meet God right now and within.



I've read books of poems by Rumi and Hafez. As well, I've read a few chapters from an introductory book on Sufism published by Shambhala Press.

Were Rumi and Hafez just famous poets or leaders in Sufism also? So sufis have books apart from the Quran?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Were Rumi and Hafez just famous poets or leaders in Sufism also? So sufis have books apart from the Quran?

There is no direct "leader" in sufism, but some become Shaykh/teacher others are just practitioners.
Rumi and Hafez in my understanding was similar to Shaykhs but I could be wrong on that. ( not sure they saw them self as it)

 

[Spirit of Light]

This is very interesting. Are there many branches of Sufism and do they have special attire? The dance begins about 1 minute in.

Yes mostly arabic style clothing to my knowledge

 

[Truthseeker]

Sufism have the Quran and Hadiths too as mainstream Islam but the focus is more on the guidance than literarly word by word, but there are also esoteric teaching within each sufi tarika, and those teachings can seem different to non sufis.
Main focus is the heart and not the brain in sufism.

So for a sufi it is more about love and compassion for all humans and unconditional love toward Allah ( Allah within our heart)

There are more than 3000 different scriptures within different sufi tarika. So example Naksibendi tarika has their own individual teachings too.

A tariqa (or tariqah; Arabic: طريقة ṭarīqah) is a school or order of Sufism, or specifically a concept for the mystical teaching and spiritual practices of such an order with the aim of seeking haqiqa, which translates as "ultimate truth".[1]

A tariqa has a murshid (guide) who plays the role of leader or spiritual director. The members or followers of a tariqa are known as muridin (singular murid), meaning "desirous", viz. "desiring the knowledge of God and loving God" (also called a faqir). Tariqa is also believed to be the same as Tzadik of Judaism meaning the "rightly guided one".

Yes, I already knew you have a guide, leader, or spiritual director in my language. I also knew there are different schools of Sufism. I had an inkling that you believe you can achieve ultimate truth. You know the Baha'i view on this also.

Here's what Baha'u'llah said about literal and esoteric:

Those who wrote commentaries on the Qur’an fell into two sorts. The first neglected the literal sense in favor of an esoteric exegesis. The other interpreted literally and ignored its metaphorical dimension. Were We to review all their sayings and statements, thou wouldst be overtaken with fatigue and unable to read what We have written for thee. Therefore, We have declined to mention them here. Blessed are they that cling both to the literal and to the esoteric, for those are His servants that have believed in the universal Word.

Know that whoso clingeth to the outward sense of the words, leaving aside their esoteric significance, is simply ignorant. And whoso concentrateth on the metaphorical sense to the exclusion of the prosaic meaning is heedless. Only the one who intepreteth the verses esoterically while harmonizing this reading with the literal meaning can be said to be a complete scholar. This maxim hath dawned from the horizon of knowledge, so know thou its value and cherish its excellence. Verily, we mention Our object allusively in our words and intimations. Blessed is the one who graspeth Our intent and arriveth at the goal.
Baha'u'llah, "Commentary on the Surah of the Sun", 19

 

[Spirit of Light]

A tariqa (or tariqah; Arabic: طريقة ṭarīqah) is a school or order of Sufism, or specifically a concept for the mystical teaching and spiritual practices of such an order with the aim of seeking haqiqa, which translates as "ultimate truth".[1]

A tariqa has a murshid (guide) who plays the role of leader or spiritual director. The members or followers of a tariqa are known as muridin (singular murid), meaning "desirous", viz. "desiring the knowledge of God and loving God" (also called a faqir). Tariqa is also believed to be the same as Tzadik of Judaism meaning the "rightly guided one".

Yes, I already knew you have a guide, leader, or spiritual director in my language. I also knew there are different schools of Sufism. I had an inkling that you believe you can achieve ultimate truth. You know the Baha'i view on this also.

Here's what Baha'u'llah said about literal and esoteric:

Those who wrote commentaries on the Qur’an fell into two sorts. The first neglected the literal sense in favor of an esoteric exegesis. The other interpreted literally and ignored its metaphorical dimension. Were We to review all their sayings and statements, thou wouldst be overtaken with fatigue and unable to read what We have written for thee. Therefore, We have declined to mention them here. Blessed are they that cling both to the literal and to the esoteric, for those are His servants that have believed in the universal Word.

Know that whoso clingeth to the outward sense of the words, leaving aside their esoteric significance, is simply ignorant. And whoso concentrateth on the metaphorical sense to the exclusion of the prosaic meaning is heedless. Only the one who intepreteth the verses esoterically while harmonizing this reading with the literal meaning can be said to be a complete scholar. This maxim hath dawned from the horizon of knowledge, so know thou its value and cherish its excellence. Verily, we mention Our object allusively in our words and intimations. Blessed is the one who graspeth Our intent and arriveth at the goal.
Baha'u'llah, "Commentary on the Surah of the Sun", 19

A sufi do not see the physical world as the true manifestation of God, but a view of the truth clouded by our ego. To live in this world but not be a part of this world until the death before death happens

 

[loverofhumanity]

A tariqa (or tariqah; Arabic: طريقة ṭarīqah) is a school or order of Sufism, or specifically a concept for the mystical teaching and spiritual practices of such an order with the aim of seeking haqiqa, which translates as "ultimate truth".[1]

A tariqa has a murshid (guide) who plays the role of leader or spiritual director. The members or followers of a tariqa are known as muridin (singular murid), meaning "desirous", viz. "desiring the knowledge of God and loving God" (also called a faqir). Tariqa is also believed to be the same as Tzadik of Judaism meaning the "rightly guided one".

Yes, I already knew you have a guide, leader, or spiritual director in my language. I also knew there are different schools of Sufism. I had an inkling that you believe you can achieve ultimate truth. You know the Baha'i view on this also.

Here's what Baha'u'llah said about literal and esoteric:

Those who wrote commentaries on the Qur’an fell into two sorts. The first neglected the literal sense in favor of an esoteric exegesis. The other interpreted literally and ignored its metaphorical dimension. Were We to review all their sayings and statements, thou wouldst be overtaken with fatigue and unable to read what We have written for thee. Therefore, We have declined to mention them here. Blessed are they that cling both to the literal and to the esoteric, for those are His servants that have believed in the universal Word.

Know that whoso clingeth to the outward sense of the words, leaving aside their esoteric significance, is simply ignorant. And whoso concentrateth on the metaphorical sense to the exclusion of the prosaic meaning is heedless. Only the one who intepreteth the verses esoterically while harmonizing this reading with the literal meaning can be said to be a complete scholar. This maxim hath dawned from the horizon of knowledge, so know thou its value and cherish its excellence. Verily, we mention Our object allusively in our words and intimations. Blessed is the one who graspeth Our intent and arriveth at the goal.
Baha'u'llah, "Commentary on the Surah of the Sun", 19

That’s so beautiful and so true for there are passages in every Holy Book that have a definite literal connotation, then there are those Words which mostly are spiritual or mystical, then there are those ones which combine both spiritual and literal meanings.

Incredible. So balanced! Thank you.

 

[Starlight]

sufism vs islam make no sense. Because sufism is a branch of islam.

Sufism is the heart of islam. Sufi islam is the mystical/spiritual dimention of islam

Sufism is not separate from islam.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

For you that are not a Muslim or a Sufi.

What is your understanding of the two teachings of Sufism vs Islam ?
Why do you feel the way you do toward the two teachings?

This thread is not about right/wrong between the two just what your view is.

This is like asking what is the difference between Methodism and Christianity. The first is a subgroup of the latter. So sufism is Islam, but is a subgroup. It is a mystical development within Islam.

 

[Truthseeker]

A sufi do not see the physical world as the true manifestation of God, but a view of the truth clouded by our ego. To live in this world but not be a part of this world until the death before death happens

There appears to be a language barrier. I don't see the physical world as the true manifestation of God either, but it seems obvious, so maybe you are saying something I don't understand. The attributes of God are reflected in this world, but the next life beyond the physical world will show a greater brilliance of those attributes. The world beyond this physical world can be accessed while we are still in this world. Yes, I agree that we should be in this world and not be part of this world, or as I would term it, be detached from this physical world. Oh, you mean death from self before physical death happens, I believe. I see that now. Baha'u'llah talks about death of self.

 

[Truthseeker]

sufism vs islam make no sense. Because sufism is a branch of islam.

Sufism is the heart of islam. Sufi islam is the mystical/spiritual dimention of islam

Sufism is not separate from islam.

He's referring to orthodox Islam when he says Islam, that is, Islam without esoteric meanings in their eyes. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding.

 

[Spirit of Light]

There appears to be a language barrier. I don't see the physical world as the true manifestation of God either, but it seems obvious, so maybe you are saying something I don't understand. The attributes of God are reflected in this world, but the next life beyond the physical world will show a greater brilliance of those attributes. The world beyond this physical world can be accessed while we are still in this world. Yes, I agree that we should be in this world and not be part of this world, or as I would term it, be detached from this physical world. Oh, you mean death from self before physical death happens, I believe. I see that now. Baha'u'llah talks about death of self.

Death befor dying means end of ego while stil living on this earth so yes ego death is most important
And you do understand sufi thought my friend

 

[Spirit of Light]

He's referring to orthodox Islam when he says Islam, that is, Islam without esoteric meanings in their eyes. He can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding.

Spot on with your understanding