Your understanding of the difference of sufism vs Islam

[River Sea]

@loverofhumanity

The Seven Valleys

@loverofhumanity was sharing about the Seven Valleys

I finally found the Seven Valleys so I could understand what @loverofhumanity was writing about.

I don't understand true 'poverty and absolute nothingness.' That is the 7th of the 7th valley was about; do you understand about poverty and absolute nothingness? What does this mean?

Here's the 7 Valleys.

From The Seven Valleys. In this mystical work, Bahá'u'lláh describes the stages of the soul's journey to union with its Creator in terms of seven valleys—of search, love, knowledge, unity, contentment, wonderment, and 'true poverty and absolute nothingness'.

So it's (1) Search, (2) Love, (3) Knowledge, (4) Unity, (5) Contentment, (6) wonderment, and (7) 'true poverty and absolute nothingness'

From The Seven Valleys
In this mystical work, Bahá’u’lláh describes the stages of the soul’s journey to union with its Creator in terms of seven valleys—of search, love, knowledge, unity, contentment, wonderment, and ‘true poverty and absolute nothingness’.

From The Seven Valleys

The website of the worldwide Bahá’í community

www.bahai.org

 

[Aupmanyav]

No different. One pill is sugar-coated, the other is not. None treats the malady, 'belief in existence of Allah and his sending messengers'.

 

[GoodAttention]

Further down this post I read from another website about worshipping stars that these people did, and I wonder: could it be that worshipping stars is actually analyzing horoscopes and somehow it's a misinterpretation to analyze some how they were thinking they were worshipping? I was thinking about this later after posting. Good thing I was able to add this here in this post. I understand this post is appearing a lot to read. But I'm processing.


@loverofhumanity from the website you shared in quotes.

{Zoroastrian (members of a monotheistic, but later dualistic, religion founded by Zoroaster, an Iranian prophet who lived before the 6th century bce), Indian (Hindu and Buddhist, primarily), and Ṣābian (star worshippers of Harran often confused with the Mandaeans) communities}

My thoughts: So star worshippers of Harran are often confused with the Mandaeans; I wonder how that confusion happened. Later the Mandaeans follow John the Baptist, so how would star worshippers of Harran in relation to later John the Baptist that later the Mandaeans followed? Was it about stars that they'd worshipped before later following John the Baptist? What does that mean, worshipping stars?

The Mandaeans of Iraq and Iran by E.S. Dower -- The Gnostic Society Library

The Mandaeans of Iraq and Iran by E. S. Drower Mandaean Scriptures, Mandaean Scriptures Collection, part of a vast collection of materials dealing with Gnosis and Gnosticism, both ancient and modern. The site includes the Gnostic Library, with the complete Nag Hammadi Library and a large...

gnosis.org

From website The Gnostic Society Library Mandaean Scriptures and Fragments The Mandaeans of Iraq and Iran by E.S. Dower
{however, a good deal to indicate that the Harranians had points of common belief which the orthodox Mandaeans, and that the learned Sabians of the Caliph's capital chose to assume Neoplatonic terms in speaking of their religion in order to lend an air of scholarship and philosophy to their tenets.}

My thoughts: So the Harranians have common beliefs with the orthodox Mandaeans, yet what is this about worshipping a star? Have you ever worshipped a star before? If you do what are your reasons to worship a star?

Again I see worshipping stars from that website The Gnostic Society Library Mandaean Scriptures and Fragments The Mandaeans of Iraq and Iran by E.S. Dower
{Recently an Arab author who had been a student for some time in Lower Iraq wrote an article in an Egyptian periodical about the Subba, or Mandaeans, in which he described them as star-worshippers.}

@GoodAttention @Bharat Jhunjhunwala
Have you ever heard of Harranians as worshipping stars and how the Harranians are similar to the Mandaeans?

@loverofhumanity Maybe the Harranians and Mandaeans that claims worshipping stars is actually analyzing Horoscopes and back when they'd thought they were worshipping stars, yet actually it's reading Horoscopes, what do you think? Because how come the word worship for, what is worship? Was it a misinterpretation?

And the Sufi's circle whirling
Why do whirling dervishes spin counterclockwise?
Many metaphysicians say that it is to match the Earth's counter clock-wise rotation.

I'm going to repeat what I put on top my post due to processing in my mind this website and word worship star because what is worship actually:

I read from another website about worshipping stars that these people did, and I wonder: could it be that worshipping stars is actually analyzing horoscopes and somehow it's a misinterpretation to analyze some how they were thinking they were worshipping? I was thinking about this later after posting. Good thing I was able to add this here in this post. I understand this post is appearing a lot to read. But I'm processing in my mind.

Astrology and horoscopes in general isn't always worshipping stars as such, but it is putting control into an entity.

There are "auspicious" and "inauspicious' days, so the stars move and depending on position will have an affect on your life.

At the Hindu temple I visited as a child there are representations of the planets as idols and people do pray to them as they do the other deities in the temple. Ten years ago I started questioning the point of this and how my religion seemed somewhat directionless, but then I also understood others who went to the same temple completely ignored these planet dieties.

I believe it is more about keeping away negative energy.

 

[River Sea]

Astrology and horoscopes in general isn't always worshipping stars as such, but it is putting control into an entity.

There are "auspicious" and "inauspicious' days, so the stars move and depending on position will have an affect on your life.

At the Hindu temple I visited as a child there are representations of the planets as idols and people do pray to them as they do the other deities in the temple. Ten years ago I started questioning the point of this and how my religion seemed somewhat directionless, but then I also understood others who went to the same temple completely ignored these planet dieties.

I believe it is more about keeping away negative energy.

@GoodAttention, can you explain what you mean by putting control into entity in astrology and horoscopes? Also, as you observe people who went to temple and ignored these planet deities, what do you think (if you can guess) they're reasons they went to this temple?

Question: When wise men saw the star and then visited baby Jesus, were these wise men putting control into an entity in relation to astrology and horoscopes, and this is in relation to Islam, as do the Islamic also know of these wise men? Are there similarities with Hindus' in the past and these wise men seeing this star and knowing about Jesus? Yet would this star that wise men saw show Jesus' birth not be in winter and be at another season?

the Hindus, even living Hindus, are known to be great followers of astrology and I understand that the word Ur Chaldeans has relationship with astrology. Furthermore, Hindu idols have the six spooked wheel as a symbol of sun and other stars. So, anachronism in Mesopotamia becomes history in Indus Valley.

Sun wheel – Alziend

www.alziend.be

“The Sun is the Spirit (Atman) of all that is in motion or at rest
and the Sun connects all things to Himself by means of a thread of spiritual light.”

Rig Veda 1.115.1

Screenshot

 

[GoodAttention]

@GoodAttention, can you explain what you mean by putting control into entity in astrology and horoscopes?

Astrology, horoscopes, and birth charts are considered important aspects for (some) Hindus. Often marriages are arranged only if charts are matching and complementary. This type of belief system is not unique to eastern cultures, but it does put an element of control in entities other than God or "the Gods".

I know of family members who would fast on Saturdays depending on the position of Saturn and how this affected their birth charts.

It is my opinion that this is another example of putting control into an entity other than God.

Also, as you observe people who went to temple and ignored these planet deities, what do you think (if you can guess) they're reasons they went to this temple?

I asked one family member "why do you pray to Ganapathi the remover of obstacles if you are going to also beg Saturn to not give you back luck?", and she replied with a smile she said "this is what we do".

We would often joke that attending temple on a Friday night wasn't about God, but it was about having a social life, and this is very true also. Sometimes you would only ever see your friends at temple, and the number of people outside having a chat was often much larger than the ones inside. This is only my experience, and of course no one goes to temple without first praying and giving an offering of some type.

The temple my family attends has been extended multiple times, once was to quadruple the carpark space, and another time was to add a function hall, dining hall, and cafeteria. The actual temple area is now dwarfed in comparison. You ask why do people go to temple? The many reasons (not in any specific order) to be with God, to be with family, to be with friends, to show humility, and to seek peace.

If a person needs to pray to the planets and the stars at their temple to experience peace, then so be it.

Question: When wise men saw the star and then visited baby Jesus, were these wise men putting control into an entity in relation to astrology and horoscopes, and this is in relation to Islam, as do the Islamic also know of these wise men? Are there similarities with Hindus' in the past and these wise men seeing this star and knowing about Jesus? Yet would this star that wise men saw show Jesus' birth not be in winter and be at another season?

For those who are interested in astrology and star signs etc, note sidereal and tropical astrology were aligned 2000 years ago.

But now the Vedic (sidereal) system, which takes into account axial precession, and is more "correct" in the sense of constellations and positions, observes the March equinox to be in Pisces, unlike the tropical, or Western system, which has "fixed" its constellations to the solar calender from the time when Jesus was said to be born, with the March equinox to always be "in Aries".

It is my opinion that what was once a part of Christian gnosticim has become modern western astrology over the millenia. I don't know about Islam's opinion on astrology, but I doubt they give it any heed. Christian gnosticism could have been influenced by "wise men" from the east.

 

[River Sea]

Astrology, horoscopes, and birth charts are considered important aspects for (some) Hindus. Often marriages are arranged only if charts are matching and complementary. This type of belief system is not unique to eastern cultures, but it does put an element of control in entities other than God or "the Gods".

I know of family members who would fast on Saturdays depending on the position of Saturn and how this affected their birth charts.

It is my opinion that this is another example of putting control into an entity other than God.




I asked one family member "why do you pray to Ganapathi the remover of obstacles if you are going to also beg Saturn to not give you back luck?", and she replied with a smile she said "this is what we do".

We would often joke that attending temple on a Friday night wasn't about God, but it was about having a social life, and this is very true also. Sometimes you would only ever see your friends at temple, and the number of people outside having a chat was often much larger than the ones inside. This is only my experience, and of course no one goes to temple without first praying and giving an offering of some type.

The temple my family attends has been extended multiple times, once was to quadruple the carpark space, and another time was to add a function hall, dining hall, and cafeteria. The actual temple area is now dwarfed in comparison. You ask why do people go to temple? The many reasons (not in any specific order) to be with God, to be with family, to be with friends, to show humility, and to seek peace.

If a person needs to pray to the planets and the stars at their temple to experience peace, then so be it.



For those who are interested in astrology and star signs etc, note sidereal and tropical astrology were aligned 2000 years ago.

But now the Vedic (sidereal) system, which takes into account axial precession, and is more "correct" in the sense of constellations and positions, observes the March equinox to be in Pisces, unlike the tropical, or Western system, which has "fixed" its constellations to the solar calender from the time when Jesus was said to be born, with the March equinox to always be "in Aries".

It is my opinion that what was once a part of Christian gnosticim has become modern western astrology over the millenia. I don't know about Islam's opinion on astrology, but I doubt they give it any heed. Christian gnosticism could have been influenced by "wise men" from the east.

This is a thread: Your understanding of the difference of sufism vs Islam

I agree with you @GoodAttention about Aries when Jesus was born

I found out the wise men weren't Islamic. I also don't think the wise men thought Jesus was the messiah, because how would they know yet this star shown them of Jesus' birth, but why? These wise men didn't know Mary and Joseph did they?

Were the 3 wise men Muslims? If so, why were they visiting a Christian event with gifts?

Matt Riggsby's answer: They were not Muslims. Islam wasn’t founded until 622 AD, centuries after Christ. Rather, they were Magi. The Magi were members of a sect of Zoroastrians, a popular dualistic religion from Persia. The Magi were particularly known for their practice of a variety of magical a...

www.quora.com

Matt Riggsby wrote
They were not Muslims. Islam wasn’t founded until 622 AD, centuries after Christ. Rather, they were Magi. The Magi were members of a sect of Zoroastrians, a popular dualistic religion from Persia. The Magi were particularly known for their practice of a variety of magical arts (indeed, that’s where we get the word magic). By astrological means, so the story goes, they determined that Jesus would be the Messiah, so they popped in to pay suitable respects.

My thoughts: how would these wise men know about Messiah, what were these wise men's thoughts about King David? What caused these wise men to focus on Jesus for? Because they saw a star?

@GoodAttention Thank you for sharing and you were sharing about Christian Gnosticism has become modern western astrology; however, there wasn't yet Christians, when wise men from the east? When did the word Christians come about? When wise men visited Jesus, (I found out there wasn't any Islamic people of yet) @paarsurrey as these wise men learned about Jesus' birth from a star?

I found more info
The Magi, or wise men, were likely from Mesopotamia or Persia, which is now Iran, Iraq, or Saudi Arabia. The term "magi" comes from the Greek word magos, which comes from the Old Persian word maguŝ. Maguŝ comes from the Avestan word magâunô, which refers to the Zoroastrian priestly caste.

The Magi were a priestly caste or tribe who were known for their knowledge of astrology, medicine, religion, astronomy, divination, and magic. They were highly educated and were known as "priest-sages".

The Magi are mentioned in the Bible in the Gospel of Matthew, but they are not called "wise men" or "kings". The Bible only says that "some men from the East" came to Jerusalem to worship the baby Jesus after seeing his star in the East.

No the wise men were not Islamic, Because Islamic wasn't of yet @GoodAttention @paarsurrey

Yeah @GoodAttention as this is a thread: Your understanding of the difference of sufism vs Islam

@GoodAttention @paarsurrey what are your thoughts on the difference of sufism vs Islam?

as you @GoodAttention mention Christian Gnosticism, I wonder if there's any Islamic Gnosticism. I'll ask @paarsurrey

@paarsurrey are there any Islamic Gnosticism? What are your thoughts on Gnosticism and your thoughts about Jesus being born in April.

@GoodAttention you wrote, "I know of family members who would fast on Saturdays depending on the position of Saturn and how this affected their birth charts.".

I have never heard of anyone fasting on Saturday due to the affecting of Saturn's position on their birth charts. I wonder if Islamic fast for this reason too, do they @paarsurrey

What is Saturn actually? What kind of soil does Saturn have? I'll go online to find out.

I found out that Saturn doesn't have soil. That's really wow., I didn't know this.

AI Overview
Learn more…Opens in new tab

Saturn doesn't have soil because it doesn't have a solid surface. Saturn is a gas giant, made up of mostly hydrogen and helium, with trace amounts of other gases. If a spacecraft were to try to land on Saturn, it would sink thousands of miles into the planet, where the heat and pressure would be too much for it to survive.


Scientists consider Saturn's surface to begin where the pressure is equal to one bar, which is similar to the pressure at sea level on Earth. Saturn's atmosphere bleeds into its "surface" with little distinction.


Saturn's rings are made of chunks of ice and rock. The largest moon of Saturn, Titan, has a surface made of water ice and other ices

 

[River Sea]

I asked one family member "why do you pray to Ganapathi the remover of obstacles if you are going to also beg Saturn to not give you back luck?", and she replied with a smile she said "this is what we do".

We would often joke that attending temple on a Friday night wasn't about God, but it was about having a social life, and this is very true also. Sometimes you would only ever see your friends at temple, and the number of people outside having a chat was often much larger than the ones inside. This is only my experience, and of course no one goes to temple without first praying and giving an offering of some type.

The temple my family attends has been extended multiple times, once was to quadruple the carpark space, and another time was to add a function hall, dining hall, and cafeteria. The actual temple area is now dwarfed in comparison. You ask why do people go to temple? The many reasons (not in any specific order) to be with God, to be with family, to be with friends, to show humility, and to seek peace.

If a person needs to pray to the planets and the stars at their temple to experience peace, then so be it.

@GoodAttention
I never heard of Ganapathi. So Ganapathi removes obstacles, as one will beg Saturn to not give bad luck.

Recently, I learned that Saturn doesn't have any soil.

How does Saturn cause bad luck, and how does Ganapathi remove obstacles?

How come a person begs? What is beg compared to asking?

Awe so many times it's about social life on a friday, when attending the temple.

So people remain outside, chatting, as well.

Saw word prostrate. First line in video. I remember when I was learning prostrate vs kneeling.

Ganesha Pancharatnam | Vande Guru Paramparaam | Sooryagayathri & Kuldeep M Pai

I don't know if this video is about Ganapathi? I love listening to this song. I put the video on loop and listen to it over again.

I enjoy listening to their music and singing

Here's screenshot using word prostrate that's in this video

 

[LuisDantas]

What is your understanding of the two teachings of Sufism vs Islam ?
Why do you feel the way you do toward the two teachings?

Sufism is a major form of esoteric Islam.

To the best of my admitedly external and limited understanding, it does not particularly align with other traditional subdivisions of Islam, some of which are only partially or controversially Islamic (e.g. Sunni, Shia, Ahmadiyya, Druze, Alawites, Ismailis, Alevis) but distinguishes itself from other forms of esoteric Islam in that it does not particularly disagree with either Sunni or Shia orthodoxies, yet seems to have a somewhat more elaborate and more ambitious (yet similar) practice when compared and contrasted to those of mainstream Sunni and Shia orthodoxies.

Also, it seems to me to have achieved slightly (but significantly) better awareness of the nature, practices and goals of non-Islamic creeds than mainstream Islam, and even somewhat better dialogue with external, non-Islamic creeds and beliefs.

 

[paarsurrey]

Matt Riggsby wrote
They were not Muslims. Islam wasn’t founded until 622 AD, centuries after Christ. Rather, they were Magi. The Magi were members of a sect of Zoroastrians, a popular dualistic religion from Persia. The Magi were particularly known for their practice of a variety of magical arts (indeed, that’s where we get the word magic). By astrological means, so the story goes, they determined that Jesus would be the Messiah, so they popped in to pay suitable respects.

My thoughts: how would these wise men know about Messiah, what were these wise men's thoughts about King David? What caused these wise men to focus on Jesus for? Because they saw a star?

@GoodAttention Thank you for sharing and you were sharing about Christian Gnosticism has become modern western astrology; however, there wasn't yet Christians, when wise men from the east? When did the word Christians come about? When wise men visited Jesus, (I found out there wasn't any Islamic people of yet) @paarsurrey as these wise men learned about Jesus' birth from a star?

One may like to read the following:
"

ufism
Sufism was quite popular in Turkey, Iran and in the countries to the east of Amu Darya, an area historically referred to as the Trans–Oxus. Many Muslims from the former USSR were followers of Sufism, which has played a very important role in keeping Islam alive in their countries during the Tsarist as well as the Communist era.

The point most forcibly stressed by Sufism was that beneath the form of religion, there operates an underlying spirit of revelation which must be given preference over the form. What the Sufis understood to be the underlying spirit was simply the ultimate goal which all religions strive for. The ultimate goal was identified as the love of God and communication with Him. Hence, to them, if you reach this goal somehow with or without adherence to the form, the purpose will be served and that is all that is required. All the Sufis however, did not abandon the form altogether and kept subjecting their lives in accordance with the laws of Islamic Shari'ah as they understood them. Yet they would spend most of their efforts not engaged in formal worship but repeating certain attributes of God day in and day out to help focus their attention entirely to the memory of God. Such practices, at times, drifted close to the yogic practice discussed in the section on Hinduism. Sometimes new ways and modes of remembrance were innovated by different Sufi saints, which, finally, got almost entirely divorced from the well-established Sunnah of the Holy Foundersa of Islam. Yet the followers of such Sufi sects adhered to them more passionately and vehemently than to the Quranic teaching itself. Thus, new schools of Sufism cropped up at different times and in different countries of the Muslim world."

Islamic Schools of Thought

Al Islam - Official website of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community - an Islamic organization, international in its scope, with branches in over 206 countries. This is the most dynamic sect of Islam in modern history, with membership exceeding tens of millions.

www.alislam.org

Right?

Regards

 

[River Sea]

@paarsurrey @GoodAttention @LuisDantas @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

Here's a video I listen to often, and I'm sharing this video with you.
Sedat Anar is playing a setar and singing a poem by Yunus Emre, who writes Sufi poetry.

I really don't understand this poem. Do you understand? I put the translation below the video: I listen to this video often. I really, extremely listen to this video often. So I share this video with you.

Sedat Anar - Bir Kez Gönül Yıktın İse (Yunus Emre)

Poem: Yunus Emre, and he writes Sufi poetry.

Sedat Anar: Setar, Vocal and Composition

If you have broken hearts once
This is not the prayer you pray
Even seventy-two nations
Your hands and faces do not close

Be the way to the right
Be the eye to see God
Be the man who stands low
Not the eye that looks from the high

If you have followed the right path
If you have held the man's skirt
If you have done a good deed
Let someone ride it, it is not too little

Yunus will say these words
As if he mixes honey with oil
He sells the mata's to the people
His load is gem, not salt

(NOTE: Poem: Taken from Selim Yağmur's book 'Yunus Emre Divanı' published by Dergah Publications. page: 198)

 

[GoodAttention]

@GoodAttention
I never heard of Ganapathi. So Ganapathi removes obstacles, as one will beg Saturn to not give bad luck.

Recently, I learned that Saturn doesn't have any soil.

How does Saturn cause bad luck, and how does Ganapathi remove obstacles?

How come a person begs? What is beg compared to asking?

Awe so many times it's about social life on a friday, when attending the temple.

So people remain outside, chatting, as well.

Saw word prostrate. First line in video. I remember when I was learning prostrate vs kneeling.

Ganesha Pancharatnam | Vande Guru Paramparaam | Sooryagayathri & Kuldeep M Pai

I don't know if this video is about Ganapathi? I love listening to this song. I put the video on loop and listen to it over again.

I enjoy listening to their music and singing

Here's screenshot using word prostrate that's in this video

View attachment 97295

Hi @River Sea

I am still reading and going through your earlier posts also so please bear with me.

Also my knowledge of Islam and Sufism is minimal, so my involvement in this thread is at your request and your questions only.


(1) Ganapathi is Ganesh, remover of obstacles. Same diety, different name.

(2) Saturn, or Sani in Tamil, is considered to bring "negative energy" or in other words "bad luck". This is an astrological concept, I don't believe the Vedas or other scriptures talk about this specifically, but I could be wrong. In any case, the way I see it, if Saturn is "unlucky" then it is better to pray to Ganapathi to remove this obstacle, than it is to "submit" to Saturn by offering prays or whatnot.

(3) Difference between beg and asking? That is a good question. I say beg in a negative context, because I view Saturn and Vedic astrology in general as negative. I would never say I beg God, but one day I could do exactly that.

(4) Astrology exists before Christ was born, this is the story of the 3 wise men "reading" the stars. Christian gnosticism comes after Christ of course, but somewhere along the road I believe it has "blended" with an earlier form of astrology to give us what is now our modern day astrology.

 

[River Sea]

The fact that Gnosticism is a modern world does not change the ground reality. The fact is that there is a spiritual version of the Hebrew, Christian and Islamic scriptures. In Hebrew the Gnosticism follows from the ten sefirot. In Christianity, Gnosticism is in Pistis Sophia. And in Islam it is in the Sufi traditions.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
Is ten sefirot similar to Kabbalah? And can you tell me more about Islam as it is in the Sufi traditions?

All the Sufis however, did not abandon the form altogether and kept subjecting their lives in accordance with the laws of Islamic Shari'ah as they understood them. Yet they would spend most of their efforts not engaged in formal worship but repeating certain attributes of God day in and day out to help focus their attention entirely to the memory of God. Such practices, at times, drifted close to the yogic practice discussed in the section on Hinduism.

@paarsurrey
This is extremely interesting how the Sufis use practices close to the yogic practices discussed in the section on Hinduism. My question is, if borrowed loanwords reveal where words come from, what about 'practice', which originated elsewhere? Is this a "borrow loan practice?"

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala
Is ten sefirot similar to Kabbalah? And can you tell me more about Islam as it is in the Sufi traditions?

There are seven principal points in the spinal cord. In the Kabbalah, three of these points are described as being dual. So, three into two makes six plus four total of ten. In content, I think it is the same. The seven chakras are there. Within the seven the Jews think three are double and the Hindus do not consider double. That is the difference.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

All the Sufis however, did not abandon the form altogether and kept subjecting their lives in accordance with the laws of Islamic Shari'ah as they understood them. Yet they would spend most of their efforts not engaged in formal worship but repeating certain attributes of God day in and day out to help focus their attention entirely to the memory of God. Such practices, at times, drifted close to the yogic practice discussed in the section on Hinduism.

The Sufi approach is mostly going inward. To my knowledge, they do not focus much on the ten sefirot or the seven chakras. They try to shut their mind off the world and go inside, which is very good. How it is derived from the Sharia? I do not know. I am learning about it.

 

[RestlessSoul]

 

[jhonsteve111]

For you that are not a Muslim or a Sufi.

What is your understanding of the two teachings of Sufism vs Islam ?
Why do you feel the way you do toward the two teachings?

This thread is not about right/wrong between the two just what your view is.

Sufism is a spiritual path within Islam that focuses on the inner, personal connection with God through meditation and devotion. While Islam provides the overall framework of faith and practice, Sufism emphasizes deeper spiritual experiences. Both are connected, but Sufism takes a more mystical approach.

 

[River Sea]

Reading the Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys by Baha'u'llah helps. By the way, I first heard the voice of God when I read the beginning of the Seven Valley 51 years ago. That's when I woke up spiritually. However, the higher valleys in the Seven Valleys are still beyond me. The Seven Valleys were written after the pattern of Conference of the Birds by Attar.

@Truthseeker I learned about Seven Valleys from @loverofhumanity
However, what does that mean, 'true poverty and absolute nothingness?' What are your thoughts about true poverty and absolute nothingness?

(1) Search, (2) Love, (3) Knowledge, (4) Unity, (5) Contentment, (6) wonderment, and (7) 'true poverty and absolute nothingness'

@loverofhumanity

The Seven Valleys

@loverofhumanity was sharing about the Seven Valleys

I finally found the Seven Valleys so I could understand what @loverofhumanity was writing about.

I don't understand true 'poverty and absolute nothingness.' That is the 7th of the 7th valley was about; do you understand about poverty and absolute nothingness? What does this mean?

Here's the 7 Valleys.

From The Seven Valleys. In this mystical work, Bahá'u'lláh describes the stages of the soul's journey to union with its Creator in terms of seven valleys—of search, love, knowledge, unity, contentment, wonderment, and 'true poverty and absolute nothingness'.

So it's (1) Search, (2) Love, (3) Knowledge, (4) Unity, (5) Contentment, (6) wonderment, and (7) 'true poverty and absolute nothingness'

From The Seven Valleys
In this mystical work, Bahá’u’lláh describes the stages of the soul’s journey to union with its Creator in terms of seven valleys—of search, love, knowledge, unity, contentment, wonderment, and ‘true poverty and absolute nothingness’.

From The Seven Valleys

The website of the worldwide Bahá’í community

www.bahai.org