Zero Probability of Evolution. Atheism wrong?

[Truly Enlightened]

I must say I find predictive prophecy--as did the NT writers--compelling--indeed, Peter, who walked with Christ three years, states that fulfilled predictive prophecy is more worthy of attention then eyewitness testimony.

I questioned the accuracy of the Bible when an adult, but as I checked on predictive prophecy in both testaments, I found the results compelling and God to be a super-mind who exists outside of our timespace.

Maybe you would like to share some of these fulfilled predictive prophesies, that you find most compelling---from an extra-Biblical perspective? Don

 

[ImmortalFlame]

3. It's unique, other religions emphasize trying to perfect oneself via good deeds (impossible), but Christianity says salvation is via trusting God, only.

So, in other words, a man can spend his entire life murdering, raping and robbing, but as long as he repents and sincerely trusts in God on his deathbed, he earns eternal reward?

Do you not think that this is a significant flaw in Christian doctrine?

 

[Altfish]

So, in other words, a man can spend his entire life murdering, raping and robbing, but as long as he repents and sincerely trusts in God on his deathbed, he earns eternal reward?

Do you not think that this is a significant flaw in Christian doctrine?

Yes, and a person who has lived a good life caring, compassionate and harmless BUT who has not found god is condemned to Hell.

Marvellous thing is religion.

 

[Audie]

Did I say that all Religious Beliefs are the same? Did I say that all Religious beliefs are indistinguishable from each other? NO! So don't straw man me with this silly misrepresentation. Do you think that the beliefs/teachings within the book of Mormons will change in the next 100 years? No. Do you think that the beliefs/teachings within Christianity will change anytime soon? Do you think that the 30-40 thousand other protestant sects will change their beliefs/teachings in the next 100 years? NO. Do you really think that I believe that all religious and cultist beliefs are the SAME?, or indistinguishable from each other? Maybe you believe that most people belong to a 100 different faiths at once, and share multiple religious beliefs at once? Maybe you believe that most people even know the difference between the different religions?

Let me make this clear, to avoid you cherry-picking more of my comments, and taking them out of context. If you belong to ONE of those religious beliefs, then that particular religious view WILL NOT CHANGE over time. Maybe you can give me just one example of a myth or superstition, whose central theme has changed over time. Maybe the virgin birth in your chosen religion has changed. Maybe the resurrection story within your chosen religion have changed. Maybe the punishment of man for his sins have changed in your chosen religion. Maybe the doing of good works have also changed. Maybe Christianity will start believing in the Trinity in the future. I doubt it! In conclusion, the central theme within(NOT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN) each of the different Religious beliefs, will be the same pedantic turgid dogma, even in the next 100 years.

Hopefully, you now understand that when I said all beliefs do not change, is not the same as saying that they are all the same. There is a big difference. Obviously , my bad. Don

You said-

The problem with all Beliefs, Myths, Superstitions, or God(s), is that they simply never change.

To which I pointed out how they morph and subdivide. (change)
Simple.

The notion that myths do not change is beyond laughable, it is deranged.

Introspection may not be your thing, did you read the what was said about you, after you were kicked out of that other forum, the other day? You really should, it was exactly spot-on. Might help you to understand yourself.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Is that "acknowledge", or, "claim"?

As for "skeptics all teach", you just made that up.

Okay, you don't believe in a multiverse yourself? This present universe is eternal and was always here? I can't think of single born again or atheist cosmologist who would agree with you. Please explain your position.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Interestingly the divorce rate in the Bible belt states of America is higher than else where.

And America,, (70% Christian) is has the 3rd highest divorce rate in the world.


And you still have not answered what it has this to do with the religious concept of sin so we can assume yet another strawman

So--if Christians have divorce rather than pursue counseling, accountability and reconciliation because "their feelings aren't there", it's okay for atheists to do the same? And that isn't sin to just drop the person who gave you children and 20 years of their life? Is that the atheist standard of morality today?

 

[BilliardsBall]

I hope that you are not going to represent, dismiss, or ignore my concerns as only, "good points". That would imply an eyes closed and a finger in the ear response. Is it logical for a perfect being, to possess any imperfect human attributes(malice, vengefulness, jealousy, anger, immorality, cruelty, selfishness, violence, contemptibility, war-mongering, ignorance, deceitfulness, evilness, and greediness)? Or, are they all dismissed as being simply beyond our understanding? Is it logical that an perfect being would create a part of himself, to be tortured to death, to atone for the sins He created in the first place?

All culturally-specific beliefs are only variations of the same 3 themes. These themes have existed even before the Bible was written. These themes are all dependent on, and fueled by our inability to reconcile for the permanency of death. One, to believe in, and honor an all-powerful culturally- specific Deity. Two, don't be selfish or greedy, and always do good, kind, loving, and useful things for others. Three, there will be some kind of an everlasting reward, for only those that do the other two. Those that don't..., well, you know what happens to them.

Finally, do you think that it is logical to adopt an entire mindset, and way of life, based on the errant, contradictory, and immoral writings from a 2700 year old foreign book? A book written, compiled, edited, commissioned, and revived, BY MEN, for the purpose of pacifying peasants and centralizing the different religions in the Empire. As I've stated before, the biggest difference between us, is that when the evidence changes, I will change my views with no ill effects. But even if irrefutable evidence could falsify a belief in anything supernatural, you and many like you could never change. Exclusivity and cognitive dissonance, would never allow this to happen. There will always be one more self-serving rationale to use, to maintain this belief. Truth is not protected BY blind faith. It is blind faith that is protected FROM the truth. Don

Good questions! I'll answer them:

1. We are made in God's image, and God has some of our attributes and vice versa, but as for things like vengeance, clearly He's VERY patient! I would have sent a lot of skeptics to perdition already, but God is VERY VERY VERY patient and etc.

2. It is not logical on its face for Christ to be killed for the sins He created. It is logical that we cannot perfect ourselves morally, share in sin, and need a redeemer. But Christ was crucified for love, not just logic. I'll be honest, when I sin, I usually don't blame God for making me weak or creating sin. When I sin, I think "I should not have used my free will that way." How can skeptics argue against transferring our sin to Christ, saying "I want to take the blame for my own actions," then in the next sentence, blame God for their actions?!

3. I agree with you about the universality of those ideas, however, where Christianity differs from other beliefs--it's not doing good that gets you to Heaven, it's perfection, imputed by Jesus from the cross!

4. I've thought before about the Bible being a book to pacify folks, but:

a. It goes against the Roman pantheon, condemns Roman belief and Roman practice, and says the Romans crucified the Lord of Glory
b. The Jews who wrote it were considered seditionists and troublemakers, by Rome
c. The Jews who wrote it faced persecution from fellow Jews, too
d. The MEN who wrote it spoke for the uplifting of women and children, lived on limited incomes, forbade prostitution and polygamy, and died as martyrs
etc.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Maybe you would like to share some of these fulfilled predictive prophesies, that you find most compelling---from an extra-Biblical perspective? Don

I remain amazed that we can verify Israel was re-founded as a Jewish nation on May 15, 1948 CE--precisely as prophesied centuries before the time of Jesus Christ! WOW!

 

[BilliardsBall]

So, in other words, a man can spend his entire life murdering, raping and robbing, but as long as he repents and sincerely trusts in God on his deathbed, he earns eternal reward?

Do you not think that this is a significant flaw in Christian doctrine?

It would be, but as you know, most conversions happen to younger people, and per the Bible, if you deny God long enough, "you're done".

Put another way, why does last-minute mercy bother you?

 

[Audie]

Okay, you don't believe in a multiverse yourself? This present universe is eternal and was always here? I can't think of single born again or atheist cosmologist who would agree with you. Please explain your position.

Gracious, you say "acknowledge", which was clearly the wrong word
for something that is by no mean demonstrated. I asked if you mean
"claim", but you answer with a question about what I believe?

As for "skeptics all teach", you just made that up

And your claim that "skeptics all teach" which is preposterous and of course you made it up.

Then you go off talking about "atheist cosmologists".

Perhaps you think the words are synonyms? Prease exrprain your
position. Or dont.

 

[ChristineM]

So--if Christians have divorce rather than pursue counseling, accountability and reconciliation because "their feelings aren't there", it's okay for atheists to do the same? And that isn't sin to just drop the person who gave you children and 20 years of their life? Is that the atheist standard of morality today?

What are you rambling about? You ask a question, i answered it, you put the answer down using what you consider christian ethics, i showed you those ethics have a pretty poor track record so say its ok for atheists to fail because Christians fail?

Your lot are failing worse so, using your argument, it shows the christian standard of morality is very poor indeed, by your reckoning, a sin.

Thanks for your input

 

[Audie]

What are you rambling about? You ask a question, i answered it, you put the answer down using what you consider christian ethics, i showed you those ethics have a pretty poor track record so say its ok for atheists to fail because Christians fail?

Your lot are failing worse so, using your argument, it shows the christian standard of morality is very poor indeed, by your reckoning, a sin.

Thanks for your input

His track record is to "answer" questions with his own
strawman rhetorical questions.

Hope he will, as he calls onus to do, be real, and
learn how a conversation is carried out.

 

[ChristineM]

His track record is to "answer" questions with his own
strawman rhetorical questions.

Hope he will, as he calls onus to do, be real, and
learn how a conversation is carried out.

Hi there. Ive come across him before on another forum where he has a reputation for precisely what say.

I would have him on ignore if he wasn't so much fun, he builds his straw men, each digs him into a deeper hole

 

[Truly Enlightened]

Yes, and a person who has lived a good life caring, compassionate and harmless BUT who has not found god is condemned to Hell.

Marvellous thing is religion.

You said-

The problem with all Beliefs, Myths, Superstitions, or God(s), is that they simply never change.

To which I pointed out how they morph and subdivide. (change)
Simple.

The notion that myths do not change is beyond laughable, it is deranged.

Introspection may not be your thing, did you read the what was said about you, after you were kicked out of that other forum, the other day? You really should, it was exactly spot-on. Might help you to understand yourself.

You wouldn't be talking about a forum that threatens anyone with bans, if they don't adhere to their strict rules of censorship, double standards, or make any comments that would threaten the beliefs of its members? That was in December. Why would you post this personal information about someone you don't even know? I know at least two poster here that have been banned from at least one other forum. But this is none of my business, and has nothing to do with my opinions. Why would you post this on open forum? If you are referring to my quote concerning sociopath, schizophrenics, psychopaths, it was also taken out of context. I was responding to a poster that claim many atheist were psychopaths, schizophrenics, and sociopaths. I said that since only 16% of the world's population are Atheists, "I would be more worried about the other sociopaths, schizophrenics, and psychopaths that are in the other 84% of the population". They said my remarks implied that all believers have these mental illnesses. After that I was banned without warning. I have no idea why they would still be talking about me, and I'm certainly not trying to understand myself.

I certainly can think of many cultist, and religious myths, and beliefs, that are a lot more laughable and deranged than the central theme of beliefs stay the same. But then that's just me. Don

 

[Audie]

You wouldn't be talking about a forum that threatens anyone with bans, if they don't adhere to their strict rules of censorship, double standards, or make any comments that would threaten the beliefs of its members? That was in December. Why would you post this personal information about someone you don't even know? I know at least two poster here that have been banned from at least one other forum. But this is none of my business, and has nothing to do with my opinions. Why would you post this on open forum? If you are referring to my quote concerning sociopath, schizophrenics, psychopaths, it was also taken out of context. I was responding to a poster that claim many atheist were psychopaths, schizophrenics, and sociopaths. I said that since only 16% of the world's population are Atheists, "I would be more worried about the other sociopaths, schizophrenics, and psychopaths that are in the other 84% of the population". They said my remarks implied that all believers have these mental illnesses. After that I was banned without warning. I have no idea why they would still be talking about me, and I'm certainly not trying to understand myself.

I certainly can think of many cultist, and religious myths, and beliefs, that are a lot more laughable and deranged than the central theme of beliefs stay the same. But then that's just me. Don

did you read the what was said about you, after you were kicked out of that other forum, the other day? You really should, it was exactly spot-on. Might help you to understand yourself.

You would learn it was not for that post, tho it may have been a final straw.
Which I, for what its worth, saw what you meant and they misread it.
No, it was an accumulation of- but you look for yourself. Not that you will.

For lo:
unto thou s raving better than the risk associated with
introspection or constructive criticism. Suit yourself.

 

[Altfish]

You wouldn't be talking about a forum that threatens anyone with bans, if they don't adhere to their strict rules of censorship, double standards, or make any comments that would threaten the beliefs of its members? That was in December. Why would you post this personal information about someone you don't even know? I know at least two poster here that have been banned from at least one other forum. But this is none of my business, and has nothing to do with my opinions. Why would you post this on open forum? If you are referring to my quote concerning sociopath, schizophrenics, psychopaths, it was also taken out of context. I was responding to a poster that claim many atheist were psychopaths, schizophrenics, and sociopaths. I said that since only 16% of the world's population are Atheists, "I would be more worried about the other sociopaths, schizophrenics, and psychopaths that are in the other 84% of the population". They said my remarks implied that all believers have these mental illnesses. After that I was banned without warning. I have no idea why they would still be talking about me, and I'm certainly not trying to understand myself.

I certainly can think of many cultist, and religious myths, and beliefs, that are a lot more laughable and deranged than the central theme of beliefs stay the same. But then that's just me. Don

Wow, I don't understand where that came from?
I wasn't talking about anyone in particular just in general and how the Christian religion condemns good people who hadn't found god.
If I misunderstood your post, I'm sorry.

 

[Audie]

Wow, I don't understand where that came from?
I wasn't talking about anyone in particular just in general and how the Christian religion condemns good people who hadn't found god.
If I misunderstood your post, I'm sorry.

TE is the one who needs to apologize, not you.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I remain amazed that we can verify Israel was re-founded as a Jewish nation on May 15, 1948 CE--precisely as prophesied centuries before the time of Jesus Christ! WOW!

Except that it wasn't. As we've discussed before.

 

[Audie]

Except that it wasn't. As we've discussed before.

I wonder what the actual (supposed) prophecy says?

I kinda looked for it, but after a couple of sites cluttered up with
pictures of angels blowing horns etc, i quit.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

did you read the what was said about you, after you were kicked out of that other forum, the other day? You really should, it was exactly spot-on. Might help you to understand yourself.

You would learn it was not for that post, tho it may have been a final straw.
Which I, for what its worth, saw what you meant and they misread it.
No, it was an accumulation of- but you look for yourself. Not that you will.

For lo- for some,
raving is better than the risk associated with
introspection or constructive criticism. Suit yourself.

Are you a young Asian lawyer, that also studied archeology, and loved to corrected other people's grammar, syntax, and their use of words? Your writing style seems very familiar to me. Did you use a different name on another forum? Don