Does Christmas have anything to do with Christ?

[sincerly]

I am not arguing the fact that Magi and wise men are not meaning the same thing.My issue is with people thinking there were three of them.It never says there were three of them.Yes,Magi means there were more than one, but just because there were three gifts given does not mean there were three wise men(Magi).READ THIS

"The number of Magi is not mentioned in the Bible record. Nevertheless, Nativity scenes and Christmas songs espouse the commonly held tradition that there were three. Evidently this springs from the fact that there were three types of gifts. Regarding these, the Bible says: “They also opened their treasures and presented [Jesus] with gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.”—Matthew 2:11.

Is it sound reasoning to conclude that since the Magi gave three different gifts, there must have been three Magi? Let us consider the account of another notable visitor to Israel. The queen of Sheba once visited King Solomon and presented him with “balsam oil and very much gold and precious stones.” (1 Kings 10:2) Although three different kinds of gifts are spoken of, the only person mentioned as giving them is the queen of Sheba. The number of her presents does not indicate that three people approached Solomon on that occasion. Similarly, the three gifts made to Jesus have little to do with the number of people who brought them.

The Catholic Encyclopedia notes: “The Gospel narrative omits to mention the number of the Magi, and there is no certain tradition in this matter. Some Fathers speak of three Magi; they are very likely influenced by the number of gifts.” It goes on to mention that various works of art show two, three, four, and even eight visiting Jesus. Some traditions favor up to 12. There is simply no way to verify the number of the Magi."

from "Were There Three?"
WOL

Bible S., You have not countered the belief of Three "Wise men" and, actually, have stated--- admitted that the number isn't known.
The Queen of Sheba and her gifts are a non-sequitur as far as the "they" gifts are concerned.
Nor does the narrative of the "wise men's" visit invalidate the Birth of Jesus. The day of it is still unknown for sure.

Because there were three gifts and "they" gave them, doesn't mean anything in the Salvation of mankind. The purpose of the Birth is/was to seek and save lost mankind.

 

[savagewind]

No one can be sure if the gifts of the wise men were not required to fund the family's fleeing from Herod. Maybe the men from the East were God sent. But Herod killed the young boys that matched Jesus description some might say is proof they were NOT God sent. How do you know Herod knew about his birth from them?

 

[sincerly]

Also,many think that the Magi were present when Jesus was born.This is not true.Sometimes you will see in nativity scenes where the shepherds and the Magi are both present.This does not agree with the facts presented in the holy scriptures.These Magi came from the far east.This trip was done most likely by camel.Caravan.This trip would have taken a long time.If you read Matthew 2:7 it says,Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared.

So,we can clearly see that it was some time from the time the Magi saw the star to the time they arrived.If you notice,it is in Luke 2 that it speaks of Jesus being born.He was a newborn.In Matthew 2 ,where it speaks of the Magi,when the Magi find Jesus,he is already a child with his mother in a house.He was in a house,not a manger.So some time had already past by the time the Magi arrived and found Jesus.Many do not even pay attention to this.It was like 15 months since the nativity scene.The family had already established themselves and had a house.

So! What is your point? I posted a reply concerning how the "wise men" were informed.

 

[sincerly]

Stars don't direct people places.

Any spectacular sky event could have been studied right where they were.

There is no proof of Wise Men/Astrologers going to WORSHIP a foreign, possible myth, come to life.


*

What you choose to believe isn't Scriptural.

 

[Nada]

also please note that everybody in the church should take part in the Holy Communion. The JW believe they shouldn't!!!! There is bo such verse in the whole Bible ,I knowa what they believe but I don'e even want to remark on it as they are very wrong.

Only those who are of the anointed class are to partake of the emblems representing the flesh and blood.Those who are to reign in heaven with Jesus Christ,such as the original disciples, and those who were at the pentecost of 33 C.E. All others should only be observers.Being an observer means showing respect and remembering what Jesus did.Observers pass the bread and wine but do not partake of it.

Many do not realize that when Jesus established the new covenant,he was speaking to the 1st century christian followers.His original disciples.

• Luke 22:29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom,
  
  
  • John 14:2, 3. 2 In the house of my Father are many dwelling places.Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you.3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be.
    
    
    Jesus is speaking to his disciples.Not us.Heaven is only for those blessed with the holy spirit by God.Just like those at the pentecost of 33C.E.
    
    There is a selected number of these according to the holy scriptures.
    
    • Luke 12:32n “Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom.
      
      
      • Revelation 14:1-3. 14 Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion,and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps.
        3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000,who have been bought from the earth.
        
        
        The full number would be 144,000. That group began to be selected in 33 C.E. Reasonably, there would be only a small number partaking now.
        
        
        Memorial (Lord’s Evening Meal) — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
        
        So from reading and thoroughly studying the holy scriptures anyone can see with any bible that this is what is written.Many are under the impression that anyone can partake of these emblems.This view is incorrect and has no biblical backing.

 

[ChristineES]

I believe that all followers of Jesus should partake of the "Lord's Supper" as well. The Church I attend does it once a month.

 

[Nada]

sincerly said: ↑
Would you accept it if it had been appointed as August or September the 25th???



Then you are basing your supposition on "silence"---it "doesn't say to do". Therefore. the converse is just as valid. The Scriptures do not say "Not to".
The "passover" was symbolic of the protection by Jesus Christ by the believing person---as evidenced by the "broken bread and the wine".
Jesus said, HE is "the way, the truth , and the Life". And one is to "choose life", why shouldn't one celebrate the "Life" that only comes from GOD"? The arguments give by you are not Scriptural, but are a twisting of the truth and the way to the Father.

Silence,no.Twisting scripture,no.It is based on knowing what the holy scriptures teaches.You will never find one passage anywhere in the holy scriptures where a true follower of God is celebrating b-day's.Only pagans celebrated this custom,such as Pharaoh in Genesis 40:20-22., and King Herod in Mark 6:21-28.

You are born only once and there is no need to celebrate your birth every year.The holy scriptures also points out the importance of ones death and says birth is of less importance.
Ecclesiastes 7:1 A good name is better than fine perfume, and the day of death better than the day of birth. So here we have God's word saying how death is more important than birth.Jesus even commanded that his death be remembered.Not his birth.
HE COMMANDED HIS DEATH BE REMEMBERED.

So we can clearly see from scripture that his death is what is important,not his birth.Jesus made his name known by shedding his blood for all of mankind.His death is remembered by the Lord evening meal.X-mas has nothing at all to do with Jesus Christ.It is a pagan custom that is really one big birthday party.It is celebrated on a known pagan date,december 25th,that has no place anywhere in the holy scriptures.Do you actually think it is a coincidence that Saturnalia is on december 25th too? No.The winter solstice celebration is on december 25th.This was later changed to X-mas by constantine in the 4th century,the 300's.

If you read and study, and do lots of research, you will find what I say to be true.

 

[Nada]

I believe that all followers of Jesus should partake of the "Lord's Supper" as well. The Church I attend does it once a month.

It is supposed to be done once a year.The Lord's evening meal was done on Nisan 14th 33C.E.This replaced the old covenant God made with the Jews when the Exodus from Egypt took place.The Lords evening meal is to be done every year at that same time.Every Nisan 14th.There is always a full moon on this night.The lamb that was slaughtered and eaten during the old passover foreshadowed the coming of the Christ.The actual lamb and Jesus were both sacrifices.The bones of the lamb were not to be broken.If you remember,none of Jesus bones were broken either.All of this was prophesied in advance.There are many parallels.

 

[savagewind]

Maybe the governing body should warn their adherents that the way they teach faith in God is to live by the book. That is what Israel did. What happened to them?

 

[Nada]

sincerly said: ↑
Bible S., Paul's writings to Timothy(1+2) says such "getting along"(God's truth vs. secular(worldly error) will not happen. Sin has to run its full course and that is "wickedness will wax worse and worse"--- sound doctrine will be traded for lies---



Bible S., Jesus, also, stated that, he that is not against us , is for us.Jesus was born as the scriptures declare and you acknowledge.
Therefore, which is against us"? The "assumed" date for the birth of Jesus Christ who was promised before the foundation of the world?---OR the denial of HIS Birth and the claim that HE/GOD/ and Creation is a myth?

That scripture you are speaking of was talking abut those who were trying to cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ.

• Mark 9:38-40. 38 John said to him: “Teacher, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said: “Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one who will do a powerful work on the basis of my name who will quickly be able to say anything bad about me. 40 For whoever is not against us is for us.
  
  
  
  Luke 9:49, 50—Why did Jesus not prevent a man from expelling demons,even though the man was not following him? Jesus did not prevent the man because the Christian congregation had not yet been formed. Hence, it was not required that the man physically accompany Jesus in order to exercise faith in Jesus’ name and expel demons.—Mark 9:38-40.
  
  
  http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200270042/269/0

 

[Nada]

What you choose to believe isn't Scriptural.

What I believe is all scriptural.What you believe is based on assumptions.Wrong interpretations.Man made beliefs with no biblical backing.

 

[savagewind]

What I believe is all scriptural.What you believe is based on assumptions.Wrong interpretations.Man made beliefs with no biblical backing.

SIGH

 

[Desert Snake]

Christians essentially stole December 25 from the Roman god Mithra who was said to have been born on that date. Mitathraism dates back over a 1000 years before the supposed birth of Jesus. A number of cultures followed its teaching, the Romans possibly the most resent. Christianity is nothing more that a corruption of many ancient cults dating back thousands of years. The real significance of December 25th is the celebration of the winter solstice.

Jesus was not an important person during his lifetime. He was nothing but a common rabble-rouser. Romans kept good records and there is no contemporary mention of him. He is really nothing more than a myth.

Xmas is a good excuse to gather friends and family. That is fine with me but don’t add a supernatural being to the day.

Santa Claus is supernatural, but I really don't know what issue you would have with that.

 

[sincerly]

also please note that everybody in the church should take part in the Holy Communion. The JW believe they shouldn't!!!! There is bo such verse in the whole Bible ,I knowa what they believe but I don'e even want to remark on it as they are very wrong.

also please note that everybody in the church should take part in the Holy Communion. The JW believe they shouldn't!!!!

1 Corinthians 11:24-27
"And when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord".

Should is a bad word. Jesus knocks at the door. Whenever you answer the door and let him in he comes in. When that happens you need not remember his death any more as he is now alive to you.

SW, This is off-topic, but it does have to do with Jesus Christ and HIS mission for the Salvation of mankind. The Why HE was born.

As Artemis acknowledged, a member of the body of Jesus Christ, is the addressed one. Passover was observed by all who had GOD as their GOD. When Jesus Christ met with HIS disciples on that last Passover gathering before HIS death that same day, HE said to do---"in remembrance of me".

Yes, Jesus is alive and comes into one's life as the door is opened for HIM. However, the believer will NOW remember continually that HIS LIFE was shed in propitiation for one's own death penalty. That just as it was written in Lev.17:11, "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."
and
Jesus in John 6:50-56, said symbolically, "This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.[/u]"

Those who are HIS will partake of the Lord's communion and allow HIM to be "in him".
HIS death occurred because HE was born for that event. "For this cause came I into the world". John18:37

 

[sincerly]

Aside from its pagan elements, most people understand that Christmas celebrates the birth of Jesus. But in practice, people spend more time in December cruising shopping malls than studying the life of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Frosty the Snowman and Rudolf the Red-nosed Reindeer compete with wise men and shepherds for our attention. During all the bustle between “Black Friday” and Christmas Eve, materialism tends to overshadow the simple stable.

HP, agreed, secularism has replaced much of the "Christ" in the season, but for Believers Christ is the purpose the season is enjoyed/celebrated.

 

[sincerly]

Jesus, Yeshua, our god, was a terrible Jew then. He broke the Sabbath, told us outright to follow different dietary laws, argued with the 'priests' in the Temple, and changed various traditional commandments/teachings. Not to mention telling his followers and those around Him that they literally didn't know the father before Him, i.e. Jeshua. Does this sound like a person who we should be applying those completely "rules" of Jusaism you are presenting? Assuming your research is correct, celebrating Xmas would be very far down on the list of 'rules' to be worrying about lol.

Disciple, Yes, those were false charges against the one who gave them.
However, the rejection of Jesus shows whose teachings were in error.

 

[Nada]

Bible S., You have not countered the belief of Three "Wise men" and, actually, have stated--- admitted that the number isn't known.
The Queen of Sheba and her gifts are a non-sequitur as far as the "they" gifts are concerned.
Nor does the narrative of the "wise men's" visit invalidate the Birth of Jesus. The day of it is still unknown for sure.

Because there were three gifts and "they" gave them, doesn't mean anything in the Salvation of mankind. The purpose of the Birth is/was to seek and save lost mankind.

No.

 

[sincerly]

Only those who are of the anointed class are to partake of the emblems representing the flesh and blood.Those who are to reign in heaven with Jesus Christ,such as the original disciples, and those who were at the pentecost of 33 C.E. All others should only be observers.Being an observer means showing respect and remembering what Jesus did.Observers pass the bread and wine but do not partake of it.

Many do not realize that when Jesus established the new covenant,he was speaking to the 1st century christian followers.His original disciples.

Bible S., The above isn't scripturally true. Paul in addressing the 1Corinthians (11:22-29) concerning the Communion supper acknowledged that it was for/by the congregation as a whole.

"""What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."""
Your posted scriptures are true, but your conclusive applications are false.
Paul wrote in that same book(10:6, 11) and Rom.15:4 That what was written is for examples, admonition, and learning by US.
Jesus(nor GOD the Father) is not a respecter of persons. Your Site is wrong in its conclusions.

 

[sincerly]

Silence,no.Twisting scripture,no.It is based on knowing what the holy scriptures teaches...

If you read and study, and do lots of research, you will find what I say to be true.

Bible S. when your eyes are opened to the truths of the Scriptures you will see that the "governing body" is erroneous in their conclusions of many things.

 

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑
sincerly said: ↑
Bible S., Paul's writings to Timothy(1+2) says such "getting along"(God's truth vs. secular(worldly error) will not happen. Sin has to run its full course and that is "wickedness will wax worse and worse"--- sound doctrine will be traded for lies---

Bible S., Jesus, also, stated that, he that is not against us , is for us.Jesus was born as the scriptures declare and you acknowledge.
Therefore, which is against us"? The "assumed" date for the birth of Jesus Christ who was promised before the foundation of the world?---OR the denial of HIS Birth and the claim that HE/GOD/ and Creation is a myth?

That scripture you are speaking of was talking abut those who were trying to cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ.

Bible S., while the initial saying was in regards to the "casting out of demons" by a person, the Principle applies as stated. You failed to answer my questions---there is nothing about giving a date to the Birth of Jesus Christ which is against a salvational principle. But there is when one claims that all of the Bible scriptures and GOD is a myth.
2Tim. 3:13; 4:2-4, There is no "getting along" as these verses reveal.
"Evil" activity will only get worse; and therefore, such will be the results of believing lies. Some of which are propagated by the "governing body"---in the name of Jehovah.