Mary mother of God

[Nada]

Your merely explaining what holy scripture means to you. Merely your opinion as do all believers do except for the roman catholic who's meaning comes from other men..

Let God be true and every man a liar.

Willyah

Example....If the holy scriptures makes it clear that Jesus is the Son of God, and not God the Almighty,then explaining this to someone is not my opinion.It is God's Word that is explaining this.I am pointing it out to the one who has not yet come to know this as truth.You are correct about those you mention being caught up in traditional thinking and man made beliefs.Followers of men instead followers of God.Yes.. God is true,and if a man who has come to know the truth, by way of grace,explains it to others,then it is truth he is telling.You can recognize such ones by the fruits they bear.

 

[Wharton]

Wharton, I would very much like to discuss this topic with you, but if you are going to cut and paste from catholic websites, I'm not interested. I put a lot of effort into my posts. If I copy something, I generally tell people up front that the writing is not mine. I'd appreciate reciprocation from the person I am conversing with. I don't mind some copy and paste, but when the whole response is from catholic websites, I have no desire to read it. If there is something I want to read from the catechism, I can do that on my own. I would prefer you think for yourself. If you're not willing to do that, I'll try and find a catholic person who is.

In your own words, tell me what you know (without going to any catholic website) about the Levitical priesthood of the Old Testament. How did they come about? What was their role? If you don't know anything about it, then please be honest and say so.

I think you have me confused with someone else. Where did I cut and paste from a Catholic website? I just quoted the words used at Mass to show you that all Catholics are priests.

Why do I need to know about the Levitical priesthood? It has no meaning to a Christian other than explaining why Jesus sits at the right hand of God. Jesus is a priest in the order of Melchizedek. He is high priest and king. No Levitical priest or Jewish king held or could hold both offices. BTW, when you change the priesthood from Levitical to Melchizedek , you change the Law. Which is why we don't follow the 613.

 

[katiemygirl]

"kepha31, post: 4179583, member: 30332"
In any event, the three-fold model of the priesthood which was in use at the time of Aaron was carried over into the New Testament and thus we find there also a high priest, ministerial priests, and universal priests. In the New Testament age the high priest is Jesus Christ (Heb. 3:1), the ministerial priests are Christ’s ordained ministers of the gospel (Rom. 15:16), and the universal priests are the entire Christian people (1 Peter. 2:5, 9).

I wasn't questioning the forum rules. I'm questioning your desire to think for yourself. Studying catholicism is studying someone else's interpretation of the Scriptures rather than reading and studying for oneself. The catholic church cannot save you. No church can. We all need to work out our own salvation, and in order to do that, we must study God's word and not the doctrines of men.

What your catechism fails to teach you is that the Levitical priesthood was changed when Jesus died on the cross.
God gave the people the law by Moses and made Aaron the first high priest. Aaron was from the tribe of Levi. The purpose of the priests was to be the middle man between mankind and God. Under the Old Law of Moses, the priests offered sacrifices to God on behalf of the people because of their sins. No person was without sin, and that included the priests of Levi’s family. Because the priests were sinners, and not perfect, there had to be a CHANGE in the priesthood. God said that there would be a new kind of priest, one who would be perfect and sinless. He, of course, would be Jesus.. There would have been no need for a different kind of priest if the priests of Levi’s family had been perfect, but they were sinners like everybody else. The old priesthood system of offering sacrifices for sins was not working. There had to be a CHANGE. The Levitical priesthood was built on the Law of Moses. A change of the priesthood required a change in the law of Moses concerning sacrifice. Instead of the priests offering sacrifices for the sins of the people, Jesus would become the sacrifice ONCE FOR ALL TIME. When Jesus died on the cross, the old Law and the Levitical priesthood were nailed to the cross right along with Him. There is no need anymore for a priesthood, which offers sacrifices for our sins. Jesus took care of that for us. There is no need for a middle man any longer. WE can approach the throne of God through our high priest Jesus. There is no such thing as a middle priesthood in the New Testament. There is no Scriptural support for it. All Christians are priests, and Jesus is our high Priest.

 

[katiemygirl]

I think you have me confused with someone else. Where did I cut and paste from a Catholic website? I just quoted the words used at Mass to show you that all Catholics are priests.

Why do I need to know about the Levitical priesthood? It has no meaning to a Christian other than explaining why Jesus sits at the right hand of God. Jesus is a priest in the order of Melchizedek. He is high priest and king. No Levitical priest or Jewish king held or could hold both offices. BTW, when you change the priesthood from Levitical to Melchizedek , you change the Law. Which is why we don't follow the 613.

I may have confused you with Kepha. I'm not sure.

I'm glad you realize there was a change in the priesthood. Along with the Mosaic Law, the priesthood was changed when Jesus died on the cross. The Law of Moses is no longer, and neither is the priesthood who offered sacrifices for the people's sins. Jesus was the final sacrifice. So why does the RCC have a priesthood? There is no need for priests to offer sacrifices for sins on our behalf. Jesus was the sacrifice, once for all. We Christians are priests and ministers now, and Jesus is our high priest. We can go directly to God through Jesus now. We don't need to go through a priest. The priest is no longer the middle man.

The church leadership structure we read about in the New Testament is as follows: Jesus Christ is the head of His church. A plurality of elders were selected to oversee each local congregation. They had to meet certain qualifications. The only priests in the NT are Christians, and all Christians are priests. There are not two classes of Christians or priests. We are all equal. See Gal. 3:27.

 

[viole]

CORRECT!

KJV replies:
Might I add ; Indeed Elohim is a title used by the many religions of the Gentile nations, but the nation Israel is the only firstborn earthly Son of YHWH-YaH ( Exo 4:22) and they used the titles Father and God, as did Jesus a Jew out of the tribe of Juda.

(John 20:17 KJV) Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

(2 Cor 11:31 KJV) The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

(Eph 1:3 KJV) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

(1 Pet 1:3 KJV) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Israel as a nation was the firstborn Son of YHWH-God and that firstborn Son was earthy. It would be through Israel the firstborn Son of YHWH-YaH that the seed of Eve Gen 3:15 would as Jesus be made of a woman. Jesus would become the seed word of God when he was anointed at about age 30 with the spirit Son Christ.

(Gen 3:15 KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Gen 3:15 in my opinion is to be interpreted two ways but that's for another post.

(Luke 8:11 KJV) Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

willyah

What I find amazing, everytime, is that you guys, in general, claim to have a personal relationship with God and yet disagree on such basic things like the divine genealogy of Jesus. Since centuries.

Not to speak of other "minor" issues like what Hell looks like, death penalty, stem cell research, gays, weapons, evolution, young vs. old earth, Catholics, predestination, female priests, etc.

May I ask what do you speak about during your alleged personal encounters with the divine? Baseball?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Wharton]

I may have confused you with Kepha. I'm not sure.

I'm glad you realize there was a change in the priesthood. Along with the Mosaic Law, the priesthood was changed when Jesus died on the cross. The Law of Moses is no longer, and neither is the priesthood who offered sacrifices for the people's sins. Jesus was the final sacrifice. So why does the RCC have a priesthood? There is no need for priests to offer sins on our behalf. Jesus was the sacrifice, once for all. We Christians are priests and ministers now, and Jesus is our high priest. We can go directly to God through Jesus now. We don't need to go through a priest. The priest is no longer the middle man.

The church leadership structure we read about in the New Testament is as follows: Jesus Christ is the head of His church. A plurality of elders were selected to oversee each local congregation. They had to meet certain qualifications.

If you understood what the Catholic Mass was or the Orthodox Divine Liturgy was, you would understand why there is an ordained priesthood. Unfortunately, not many Catholics understand what the Mass is.

The priest is just the presider at the eucharist as mentioned in the NT.

 

[kjv4me2you]

What I find amazing, everytime, is that you guys, in general, claim to have a personal relationship with God and yet disagree on such basic things like the divine genealogy of Jesus. Since centuries.

Not to speak of other "minor" issues like what Hell looks like, death penalty, stem cell research, gays, weapons, evolution, young vs. old earth, Catholics, predestination, female priests, etc.

May I ask what do you speak about during your alleged personal encounters with the divine? Baseball?

Ciao

- viole

Divine genealogy of Jesus? Is that a new doctrine? No genealogy is divine.
(Titus 3:9 KJV) But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

willyah

 

[katiemygirl]

If you understood what the Catholic Mass was or the Orthodox Divine Liturgy was, you would understand why there is an ordained priesthood. Unfortunately, not many Catholics understand what the Mass is.

The priest is just the presider at the eucharist as mentioned in the NT.

Can you explain in your own words what the mass is?

 

[kjv4me2you]

If you understood what the Catholic Mass was or the Orthodox Divine Liturgy was, you would understand why there is an ordained priesthood. Unfortunately, not many Catholics understand what the Mass is.

The priest is just the presider at the Eucharist as mentioned in the NT.

You do know the word Eucharist does not mean YHWH-YaH or Yehoshua-Jesus.

You do know the Pharisee's who's father was the devil gave Eucharist .

(John 8:43 KJV) Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

(John 8:44 KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

(John 8:45 KJV) And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, (Luke 18:11 KJV) The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank ( Eucharist) thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

In the Pharisee's prayer it was all about what he did and what he was not and what others were.

We do have all ( Yehoshua ) said and he never said do a rcc mass........why? because the Pharisee prayed with himself and did Eucharist = (Luke 18:11 KJV) The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I euchcarist-thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. (Luke 18:12 KJV) I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.


40 DAYS ON EARTH

It should be noted that no apostles ever did a liturgical service of body eating of Yehoshua's body or a blood drinking of Yehoshua's blood in ACTS or THE EPISTLES or in REVELATION which encompasses 63 years of their N.T. scriptures from Pentecost Acts 33 AD to Rev 96 AD with no Roman Catholic mass services being done. Also Yehoshua was on earth 40 days after YaH resurrected him which would be 5 sundays and 120 meals and never did a rcc mass service but what Yehoshua did do was speak the word of YaH to the disciples regarding the kingdom of YaH. It can be concluded that Yehoshua would have ate and drank during those 40 days and of 120 meals.

(Acts 1:3 KJV) To whom also he ( Yehoshua ) showed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

THISTHREAD IS ABOUT MARY THE MOTHER OF JESUS BEING THE MOTHER OF GOD. PERHAPS WE SHOULD RETURN TO DISCUSSING IT.

Have you considered that Mary never did a rcc eucharist mass and that in scripture Mary never ate the flesh and blood of Jesus before or after YHWH -YaH resurrected Jesus.

YOU CANNOT GLORIFY OR EXTOL YHWH-YaH USING A GREEK WORD THAT DOES NOT MEAN YaH-GOD NOR IS IT A NAME FOR JESUS.

If we know His name is YHWH-YaH; we cannot glorify Him as the Greek word eucharist but we are eucharisteo-thankful to Him who's name is YHWH-YaH. (Psa 68:4 KJV) Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by His name YAH, and rejoice before him.

(Rom 1:21 KJV) Because that, when they knew ( YaH) God, they glorified him not as (YaH) God, neither were thankful ( eucharisteō ) ; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

The vain imagination of men made the Greek word thanks-eucharisteo to be YaH-God. They are not being thankful to Him whose name is YaH but rather they are making a Greek word thanks-eucharisteo to be YaH.

(Rom 1:23 KJV) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

(Rom 1:25 KJV) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

They changed the truth of God into a lie. The truth of God is His name YHWH-YaH and not he is the Greek word eucharisteo as a round wafer to be eaten.

(Rom 1:22 KJV) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Love the one only God who's one and only name is YHWH-YaH.

(Zec 14:9 KJV) And YHWH-YaH shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one YHWH-YaH, and his name one.

YHWH-YaH cannot have two or three name names.
(Psa 68:4 KJV) Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by His name YAH, and rejoice before Him.

willyah

 

[lovemuffin]

Eucharist means "thanks", basically. The practice is called the "eucharist" because the biblical account says that Jesus took bread in his hands and "gave thanks", and then took the cup and also "gave thanks". That is the meaning of the verb ευχαριστέω, with it's cognate noun ευχαριστια.

The word is used quite often in the Christian scriptures to refer to giving thanks to God. The fact that the pharisees also give thanks to God does not invalidate giving thanks, any more than the fact that pharisees believed in God means that Christians should not believe in God.

Beyond that, you've misconstrued the meaning of the pharisee and the publican, since it's not about giving thanks being bad, but about doing things in public with the aim of being recognized and rewarded by people for your piety.

 

[Wharton]

THISTHREAD IS ABOUT MARY THE MOTHER OF JESUS BEING THE MOTHER OF GOD. PERHAPS WE SHOULD RETURN TO DISCUSSING IT.

OK. The Protestant reformers believed that Mary is the Mother of God. I believe Martin Luther is buried near or under a statue of the coronation of Mary as Queen of heaven. Your thoughts?

 

[Wharton]

Can you explain in your own words what the mass is?

Evidently we're po'ing kjv4me2you "
THISTHREAD IS ABOUT MARY THE MOTHER OF JESUS BEING THE MOTHER OF GOD. PERHAPS WE SHOULD RETURN TO DISCUSSING IT."

So you're out of luck. You can google and find out what it is.

 

[kjv4me2you]

OK. The Protestant reformers believed that Mary is the Mother of God. I believe Martin Luther is buried near or under a statue of the coronation of Mary as Queen of heaven. Your thoughts?

I believe Martin Luther began the reformation that is still ongoing for the protestants. I am neither a Lutheran or protestant.

willyah

 

[Wharton]

I believe Martin Luther began the reformation that is still ongoing for the protestants. I am neither a Lutheran or protestant.

willyah

You're your own bishop then?

 

[kjv4me2you]

Example....If the holy scriptures makes it clear that Jesus is the Son of God, and not God the Almighty,then explaining this to someone is not my opinion.It is God's Word that is explaining this.I am pointing it out to the one who has not yet come to know this as truth.You are correct about those you mention being caught up in traditional thinking and man made beliefs.Followers of men instead followers of God.Yes.. God is true,and if a man who has come to know the truth, by way of grace,explains it to others,then it is truth he is telling.You can recognize such ones by the fruits they bear.

(Eccl 7:29 KJV) Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions-concepts.

(Eccl 8:1 KJV) Who is as the wise man? and who knoweth the interpretation of a thing? a man's wisdom maketh his face to shine, and the boldness of his face shall be changed.
..........
Man's wisdom is not YHWH-YaH's wisdom.
............
(Psa 119:135 KJV) Make thy face to shine upon thy servant; and teach me thy statutes.
..........
(Eccl 8:2 KJV) I counsel thee to keep the king's commandment, and that in regard of the oath of God.

(Eccl 8:3 KJV) Be not hasty to go out of his sight: stand not in an evil thing; for he doeth whatsoever pleaseth him.

(Eccl 8:4 KJV) Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?

(Eccl 8:5 KJV) Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment.

(Eccl 8:6 KJV) Because to every purpose there is time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him.

(Eccl 8:7 KJV) For he knoweth not that which shall be: for who can tell him when it shall be?

(Eccl 8:8 KJV) There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
...........
Not even Jesus could retain his spirit. We can only commend it to the Father of spirits.
(Luke 23:46 KJV) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
(Heb 12:9 KJV) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
...........
(Psa 119:130 KJV) The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

(Psa 119:131 KJV) I opened my mouth, and panted: for I longed for thy commandments.

(Psa 119:132 KJV) Look thou upon me, and be merciful unto me, as thou usest to do unto those that love thy name.

(Psa 119:133 KJV) Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.

(Psa 119:134 KJV) Deliver me from the oppression of man: so will I keep thy precepts.

(Psa 119:135 KJV) Make thy face to shine upon thy servant; and teach me thy statutes.

(Psa 119:136 KJV) Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.

(Psa 119:137 KJV) TZADDI. Righteous art thou, O YHWH-YaH, and upright are thy judgments.

(Psa 119:138 KJV) Thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful.

(Psa 119:139 KJV) My zeal hath consumed me, because mine enemies have forgotten thy words.

(Psa 119:140 KJV) Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

willyah

 

[Nada]

(Eccl 7:29 KJV) Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions-concepts.

(Eccl 8:1 KJV) Who is as the wise man? and who knoweth the interpretation of a thing? a man's wisdom maketh his face to shine, and the boldness of his face shall be changed.
..........
Man's wisdom is not YHWH-YaH's wisdom.
............
(Psa 119:135 KJV) Make thy face to shine upon thy servant; and teach me thy statutes.
..........
(Eccl 8:2 KJV) I counsel thee to keep the king's commandment, and that in regard of the oath of God.

(Eccl 8:3 KJV) Be not hasty to go out of his sight: stand not in an evil thing; for he doeth whatsoever pleaseth him.

(Eccl 8:4 KJV) Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?

(Eccl 8:5 KJV) Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man's heart discerneth both time and judgment.

(Eccl 8:6 KJV) Because to every purpose there is time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him.

(Eccl 8:7 KJV) For he knoweth not that which shall be: for who can tell him when it shall be?

(Eccl 8:8 KJV) There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.

(Psa 119:130 KJV) The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

(Psa 119:131 KJV) I opened my mouth, and panted: for I longed for thy commandments.

(Psa 119:132 KJV) Look thou upon me, and be merciful unto me, as thou usest to do unto those that love thy name.

(Psa 119:133 KJV) Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.

(Psa 119:134 KJV) Deliver me from the oppression of man: so will I keep thy precepts.

(Psa 119:135 KJV) Make thy face to shine upon thy servant; and teach me thy statutes.

(Psa 119:136 KJV) Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.

(Psa 119:137 KJV) TZADDI. Righteous art thou, O LORD, and upright are thy judgments.

(Psa 119:138 KJV) Thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful.

(Psa 119:139 KJV) My zeal hath consumed me, because mine enemies have forgotten thy words.

(Psa 119:140 KJV) Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.

willyah

Exactly.That is why it is only by grace that someone receives truth.It is not by attending schools or reading for 50 years.It is a gift only God can give you.

 

[kjv4me2you]

Exactly.That is why it is only by grace that someone receives truth.It is not by attending schools or reading for 50 years.It is a gift only God can give you.

(2 Tim 2:15 KJV) Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

(Rev 1:3 KJV) Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.



willyah

 

[Nada]

(2 Tim 2:15 KJV) Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

willyah

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

 

[kjv4me2you]

You're your own bishop then?

Grin nope, but nice try.

(1 Pet 2:25 KJV) For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

The word bishop ceases to be used in scripture once Peter said ye are returned to the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. Bishop was only used 4 times and ceased to be used in the word of God after 1 Peter 2:25 AD 60.

willyah

 

[kjv4me2you]

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

After your saved by grace through the faith of Christ that cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God ;THEN study the word of God and read the word of God to show thyself approved unto God.

(Rom 10:17 KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

(Gal 2:16 KJV) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

willyah