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Judaism
- Thread starter Byjayfzv
- Start date
FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
Same as muslims! They die, they see god face-to-face.
How about those who aren't dead yet?
FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
Ah...that is a good question? How do you propose to go about answering it? I'm glad to consult with you on this, but I seriously doubt it will be appreciated by Jews, Xtians, or Muslims.
Well let's hear.
FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
Oh well...thanks for the invite...for those who aren't dead, and aren't stupid/ignorant...we shall turn to observation...
Judaism is baseless...
Xtianity is baseless...
Islam is baseless...
Any more questions?
Levite
Higher and Higher
Generally speaking, Jews tend not to engage in that kind of behavior voluntarily. "Proving" your religion is "the truth" is usually a facet of universalist religions that are actively proselytizing because they believe theirs to be the only legitimate or effective means of relating to God, and/or that everyone ought to be their religion.
Judaism is not universalist: we are, in fact, forbidden from active proselytization. We do accept proselytes who come to us of their own free will, but we do not actively seek out converts. This is, in part, because we do not (by and large) teach that Judaism is the only legitimate or effective means of relating to God, nor do we believe that everyone ought to be Jewish. We teach that Judaism is the only legitimate and authentic religion for Jews. We presume that non-Jews will have their own ways of relating to God, and that those ways can be and probably are perfectly satisfactory and effective for them.
We have various traditions and teachings about why Judaism alone is permissible and right for Jews to practice, and why Jews are forbidden from all other religions. But we don't generally make an effort to demonstrate such teachings to non-Jews, since the matter doesn't really concern non-Jews, unless said non-Jews are trying to force us to abandon Judaism for some other religion-- in which case we usually explain that we are bound by the covenant that our ancestors agreed to at Sinai, and the one which they (and we) inherited from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and that those covenants are eternal and unbreakable and commit us not only to pure monotheism but to our own specific and unique path of relating to God.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Only through their beliefs, if you truly believe in whatever, then you will believe in that to be truth to you, and that is what everyone does.
I'm not looking to be proselytized. I was just curious as to what basis the Jews have to their claims. Also, if a person need not be a Jew to relate to god then looking for a proof shouldn't hurt if he doesn't need to be jewish either way.
Levite
Higher and Higher
I was not under the impression that you were.
What "claims" and "proofs" do you mean, then?
That the Torah is the truth. That the god of Abraham is the god of everything. How do Jews know this?
rosends
Well-Known Member
Are you asking how a Jews knows in his own mind or how he can substantiate it for anyone else?
For the former, I guess that I, as a Jew, simply believe and once I am in a context of belief, the proofs seem apparent. I can't explain or defend belief or convince anyone else to believe. I look at the torah, and what has developed around it practically, socially and culturally and it all seems right to me. Would that prove anything to anyone? Probably not. But that's not my goal. My goal is, though my actions and my statements, to show that whatever it is I believe in is helping me be a good person, a consistent person, and someone who is working within a reasonable system.
For the former, I guess that I, as a Jew, simply believe and once I am in a context of belief, the proofs seem apparent. I can't explain or defend belief or convince anyone else to believe. I look at the torah, and what has developed around it practically, socially and culturally and it all seems right to me. Would that prove anything to anyone? Probably not. But that's not my goal. My goal is, though my actions and my statements, to show that whatever it is I believe in is helping me be a good person, a consistent person, and someone who is working within a reasonable system.
What do you say about the mass revelation with the Israelites at mt. Sinai. Is that considered enough historical evidence?
It's the only good possible evidence for the truth of Judaism?
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
Why go to such lengths when the goal of the thread is so clear?
There are better ways to waste your time.
For example this, these people safe animals in need. Quite heartbreaking.
^ This.
FunctionalAtheist
Hammer of Reason
How is that historical evidence in any sense. By accepting it as such I should find 'observable' evidence of the Trojan Horse in Homer!
Nothing in history can no longer be observed that means we can say it didn't happen? I'm not saying it for sure happened, but there is a way to say it most probably or probably happened.
