Could Nothingness Be Another Dimension In And Of Itself?

[Papoon]

I'll sleep better tonight now...thank you for that Papoon...good night...

 

[`mud]

Gnosis allows one to know of the inability to contain a nothingness.
Nor can one contain a singularity, it has no container.
If we can find any containers, we'll solve the supreme mystery.
~
'mud

 

[Runewolf1973]

That view of reincarnation is not exactly compatible with the accepted view. Reincarnation is often referred to as 'the wheel' of endless births and deaths from which one wants to escape, not to remain in. The idea is that reincarnation occurs because past karma has not been worked out yet. Those who seek the enlightened state do not wish to remain on a karma-driven path, but instead wish to set foot onto the way-driven path, as outlined by the Buddha's Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path as a means of dealing with karma and suffering. The enlightened mind is not interested in coming and going; to the contrary, the enlightened wish to transcend all coming and going, ie: birth and death.

"All this world is filled with coming and going;
show me the path where there is no coming
and there is no going"

Zen source

The 'coming and going' you refer to as the ebb and flow of the universe is all illusory. In reality, there is no such coming and going. All coming and going is nothing but maya and leela. There is no such coming and going in the awakened state.

My view is not compatible with Hinduism or Buddhism. I don't accept either one as being the "right view".

 

[YmirGF]

Sure you are. That is the first thing the unawakened adamantly insist upon, as Robert deRopp, author of 'The Master Game' tells us:

<DRIVEL SNIP>


Not only are you not aware of what Identification is, while pretending that you do know, you deliberately indulge in it, touting it as the desired condition.

You see, this is a good example of what I find so fascinating about you. If anyone states anything that is not close to what you are preaching, they are "wrong, wrong, wrong". It IS fascinating the lengths you go to in order to "prove" your point, like citing non-entities like your Dr. Robert de Ropp, as if he is an authority. It is also another example of your slavish clinging to his dogma and making it your own, falsely elevating yourself in your own mind in the process.

 

[YmirGF]

My view is not compatible with Hinduism or Buddhism. I don't accept either one as being the "right view".

I wholeheartedly agree, Runey. I have little interest in even trying to align my current outlook with either schools of thought as I don't accept either as definitive authorities. I will openly admit my ideas grew out of those traditions, but it would not occur to me to sully them by insisting my view is representative of either.

 

[YmirGF]

Yes, I also view the Universe and everything as cyclical. That is also one reason why I believe in reincarnation. I believe it is another natural cycle...a coming and going...the ebb and flow of the universe

I would mildly agree with the first part and largely agree with the later. You never read that reincarnation is simply a pursuit of knowledge, "field study", if you will by curious personalities wanting to explore a large variety of "what if" scenarios. Reincarnation is usually seen as a kind of trap that human animals are trying to escape from instead of a rich arena that entities use to explore aspects of consciousness that are otherwise unavailable to them.

 

[YmirGF]

I don't experience enlightened mind. I don't experience anything. I am being experienced. I do not know anything about who is having this experience. I do not need to know. There is nothing to confirm or deny.

Without poking you in the eye with a sharp stick....
If you don't experience anything how can you say you are being experienced? Which is it?

 

[godnotgod]

Gnosis allows one to know of the inability to contain a nothingness.
Nor can one contain a singularity, it has no container.
If we can find any containers, we'll solve the supreme mystery.
~
'mud

Heh heh...If a container is found, there will be an inside and an outside. Then the new mystery will be what is on the outside. No, Mud. Nothingness cannot be so contained; nothingness IS the container, the background against which Everything exists and out of which Everything emerges. This Nothingness is none other than Consciousness itself. Neither can be contained, nor exists in Time or Space.

 

[godnotgod]

My view is not compatible with Hinduism or Buddhism. I don't accept either one as being the "right view".

Perhaps not, but all you did was to say that you accept reincarnation, and the views I posted are the generally accepted views. So in your view, what is the point of reincarnation?

 

[godnotgod]

You see, this is a good example of what I find so fascinating about you. If anyone states anything that is not close to what you are preaching, they are "wrong, wrong, wrong". It IS fascinating the lengths you go to in order to "prove" your point, like citing non-entities like your Dr. Robert de Ropp, as if he is an authority. It is also another example of your slavish clinging to his dogma and making it your own, falsely elevating yourself in your own mind in the process.

Except for the fact that what deRopp is presenting regarding Identification and the Third Level of Consciousness are not his own personal views, but generally accepted views within the spiritual community. I can verify these ideas as correct via my own experience as well.

The true nature of Reality is not open to opinion. It is one way, even though it is expressed in myriad ways.

This is not a question of right vs wrong. It is one of 'right view', which is not the same:

"Right, on the Eightfold Path, doesn't mean right versus wrong so much as it means seeing vs not-seeing. It refers to being in touch with Reality as opposed to being deluded by our own prejudices, thoughts, and beliefs.....Thus, when I use the word 'right'....I intend it to refer to what is conducive to awakening, rather than something that can be compared against something wrong."

'Buddhism Plain & Simple', by Steve Hagen

 

[godnotgod]

I wholeheartedly agree, Runey. I have little interest in even trying to align my current outlook with either schools of thought as I don't accept either as definitive authorities. I will openly admit my ideas grew out of those traditions, but it would not occur to me to sully them by insisting my view is representative of either.

And yet, both schools have a strong body of evidence to support their ideas of reincarnation which cannot be ignored. Or maybe they can. What evidence do you have in comparison about reincarnation to support your view?

 

[godnotgod]

I would mildly agree with the first part and largely agree with the later. You never read that reincarnation is simply a pursuit of knowledge, "field study", if you will by curious personalities wanting to explore a large variety of "what if" scenarios. Reincarnation is usually seen as a kind of trap that human animals are trying to escape from instead of a rich arena that entities use to explore aspects of consciousness that are otherwise unavailable to them.

Yes, I would rather be reborn into a think tank full of seekers in order to perpetuate seeking, than enter into Nirvana, attaining Enlightenment, and be done with all that goes on down below. Not.

So you want to stop and smell the pretty flowers and eat candy, do you? Careful you don't get hypnotized by the illusion....oooops!...heh...heh...there he goes, folks.

You see, as an advertised bodhisattva, you should'nt be stuffing your face with chocolate; you should deliberately choose to reincarnate for the purpose of saving others from suffering, as any real bodhisattva would do out of genuine compassion, something you like to holler and fuss about. But then again, that chocolate is so sweet and inviting, and.......

 

[godnotgod]

Without poking you in the eye with a sharp stick....
If you don't experience anything how can you say you are being experienced? Which is it?

Hmmm....you must have poked yourself in the eye with a sharp stick if you can't see why. Ouch!

(did you say you were a bodhisattva?)

 

[Runewolf1973]

Perhaps not, but all you did was to say that you accept reincarnation, and the views I posted are the generally accepted views. So in your view, what is the point of reincarnation?

I don't see reincarnation as any sort of learning process or the trials and tribulation towards attaining some higher goal. I see reincarnation as simply the natural transformation of energy from one form to another, or from one state to another. You maybe see everything as changeless, but from my view everything is changing/transforming. When our body ceases to sustain that same level of interaction we call our "life" or "consciousness", that interaction does not cease, it changes. We don't stop interacting, we interact differently. I don't feel there is any real purpose to it, it is just what the universe and nature does. A star is born, then that star dies, then new stars are born. With every change that takes place, a bit of the information from the previous form is retained and is carried on the the next...

 

[godnotgod]

No, you are just making stuff up again...

Sunyata is simply not compatible with "cosmic consciousness"

So here's more 'New Age Hinduism' for you to chew on from someone other than myself:

".....higher consciousness—a direct, intuitive experience of the infinite field of awareness that underlies and pervades the entire universe. When this experience is fully expanded, different traditions give it different names—samadhi, nirvana, enlightenment, turiya, shunyata, Brahman, Christ Consciousness, Absolute Truth, Atman, God, the Self, Supreme Consciousness—but whatever they call it, spiritual masters tell us that this experience of an all-pervasive consciousness reveals the truth about ourselves and the world we inhabit: it is all One. There is no division, no multiplicity, no separation. Everything—the astonishing variety of living beings; nature’s myriad shapes, textures, and forms; the sun, the stars, the clouds, and the wind in the trees—all of it is a manifestation of an indivisible field of Consciousness. The goal of human life, the sages tell us, is to meet that Consciousness within ourselves and to know ourselves as That.

Experiencing Consciousness is simplicity itself, the sages tell us—after all, it is our own true nature. As the 14th-century master, Vidyaranya Yati put it, “You are whatever you know yourself to be. This is a simple law. Brahmavit Brahmaiva bhavati. The knower of Brahman becomes Brahman. The moment you know that you are inseparable from Universal Consciousness, you become that Universal Consciousness.” ... “It’s as simple as flipping a light switch. Suppose this room is kept dark for one hundred years. How long will it take to light this room? One second.”

Swamiji’s spiritual heir, Pandit Rajmani Tigunait, takes the same view, as I discovered one winter morning while complaining to him about feeling spiritually stuck. Panditji leaned forward, took my face in his hands, and turned my head a few degrees. “It’s right there,” he said forcefully. “There! Adjust your gaze a fraction, you’ll see it. Everything is Consciousness. Everything!”

https://yogainternational.com/article/view/a-glimpse-of-cosmic-consciousness

 

[godnotgod]

I don't see reincarnation as any sort of learning process or the trials and tribulation towards attaining some higher goal. I see reincarnation as simply the natural transformation of energy from one form to another, or from one state to another. You maybe see everything as changeless, but from my view everything is changing/transforming. When our body ceases to sustain that same level of interaction we call our "life" or "consciousness", that interaction does not cease, it changes. We don't stop interacting, we interact differently. I don't feel there is any real purpose to it, it is just what the universe and nature does.* A star is born, then that star dies, then new stars are born. With every change that takes place, a bit of the information from the previous form is retained and is carried on the the next...

Man, I just love being part and parcel of the wonderful Big Gyrating Stupidity in the Sky! yuk yuk!

*yes, but what is this 'doing' about? You're not telling me anything. IOW, what is the true nature of Reality?

When you are asleep, dreaming, say, that you are running from a tiger, there is change and interaction. But upon awakening, you immediately realize that there was no such change or interaction. It was all just an illusion. Well, the same is true from this Third Level of Consciousness we call material reality, to the next and subsequent levels of Consciousness. When you awaken from the dream that is this world, you will see all of the effervescence of this world as illusory. You will be in the state of The Changeless.

 

[YmirGF]

Except for the fact that what deRopp is presenting regarding Identification and the Third Level of Consciousness are not his own personal views, but generally accepted views within the spiritual community. I can verify these ideas as correct via my own experience as well.

Um, what so-called "spiritual" community?

The true nature of Reality is not open to opinion. It is one way, even though it is expressed in myriad ways.

Theoretically, that expression, in its myriad of ways, represents the opinions of their writers. The map is never the territory. Pretending one set of ideas accurately reflects the territory is patently absurd.

And yet, both schools have a strong body of evidence to support their ideas of reincarnation which cannot be ignored. Or maybe they can. What evidence do you have in comparison about reincarnation to support your view?

A strong body of evidence? Seriously? I guess, if we set the bar reallllllllly low, we can call anecdotal tales "evidence". To be fair, I've not written much on RF about my thoughts on reincarnation. Hey, I'll even be honest. You have to take my word that I actually know what I'm talking about. At least I'm willing to admit I could be quite wrong.

Yes, I would rather be reborn into a think tank full of seekers in order to perpetuate seeking, than enter into Nirvana, attaining Enlightenment, and be done with all that goes on down below. Not.

So you want to stop and smell the pretty flowers and eat candy, do you? Careful you don't get hypnotized by the illusion....oooops!...heh...heh...there he goes, folks.

You see, as an advertised bodhisattva, you should'nt be stuffing your face with chocolate; you should deliberately choose to reincarnate for the purpose of saving others from suffering, as any real bodhisattva would do out of genuine compassion, something you like to holler and fuss about. But then again, that chocolate is so sweet and inviting, and.......

You have no clue what you are arguing against and yet you feel comfortable launching into yet another superiority syndrome induced tirade? Would it make a difference to you if those who organized excursions into three-dimensional reality were already well beyond our puny ideas of Nirvana and Enlightenment? That they do so to learn things that they cannot in their native environments... that the whole karmic wheel thingy is a crock... and a gross exaggeration of the reality of taking on incarnations.

Hmmm....you must have poked yourself in the eye with a sharp stick if you can't see why. Ouch!

(did you say you were a bodhisattva?)

So............ you're saying that what he alleged was not contradictory? How much Kool-Aid does one have to sniff before it actually makes a lick of sense?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Man, I just love being part and parcel of the wonderful Big Gyrating Stupidity in the Sky! DUH!

Do you say that just to sound dramatic? Because I don't see any evidence pointing towards a changless/nothingness/pure consciousness reality.

 

[godnotgod]

So............ you're saying that what he alleged was not contradictory?

I don't see any contradiction whatsoever in what he is saying, but I will leave the rest of the commentary to him.

 

[godnotgod]

Do you say that just to sound dramatic? Because I don't see any evidence pointing towards a changless/nothingness/pure consciousness reality.

Think of yourself standing absolutely still on a bridge over a flowing river.