The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

[RabbiO]

GAME, SET, and MATCH!!!

 

[Muffled]

Porque said "Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament

The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)"

I believe His statement does not abolish the old law but simply adds a higher calling. An eye for an eye is justice but a willingness to suffer the loss of an eye without seeking justice is a higher calling.

 

[Porque77]

The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .

In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel.

 

[Porque77]

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel.

Dear friends, I have studied the writings of the prophets, and I found several quotes that make me think what happened to God's Law.

The writings of the prophets tell us that God's law was changed.

The prophets tell us that the scribes had changed the God's Law

The Mosaic covenant and law were given by God, but after the years and centuries, the prophets tell us that the scribes changed the law of God. So tell us the prophets:

"... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes" (Jeremiah 8: 7-9).

"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).

"He says, therefore, the Lord: Because this people draw near me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which have been taught" (Isaiah 29.13).

And Jesus Christ, remembering the words of the prophet Isaiah, also told the scribes and Pharisees who were teaching the commandments of men:

"Hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
This people honors me with their lips;
But their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me,
Teaching for doctrines commandments of men" (Matthew 15.7-9

Dear friends, this is what happened, what the prophets tell us: The God's law was changed by the scribes. The Old Testament's law is different to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

 

[Porque77]

Porque said "Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament

The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)"

I believe His statement does not abolish the old law but simply adds a higher calling. An eye for an eye is justice but a willingness to suffer the loss of an eye without seeking justice is a higher calling.

I do not agree. Jesus said that "eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" is no longer practiced, therefore, that law was abolished

 

[Porque77]

Porque77 said: ↑
However, no one is under the laws of the Old Testament that were abolished by Jesus Christ, because many of these laws were not true Law of God.

I don't believe I have ever seen anything other than that they were laws of God. I don't believe Jesus abolished anything but fulfilled them instead. That may simply mean that a law has no value in the New Covenant but it does not invalidate the Old Covenant.

All wrong. The people received the Law under Moses. After, Jewish scribes changed the law and so was the Old Testament before Jesus Christ was born: The Law was changed with many precepts of men. Jesus again taught the true law of God.

 

[metis]

All wrong. The people received the Law under Moses. After, Jewish scribes changed the law and so was the Old Testament before Jesus Christ was born: The Law was changed with many precepts of men. Jesus again taught the true law of God.

Do you realize how totally illogical the above is because one would have had to be there to witness such events, and I doubt you're that old. Now, I'm pretty close to being that ol... er, I mean mature.

 

[Muffled]

Porque77 said "The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)"

I believe the eye for an eye was not retaliation but how justice was meted out. Jesus did not change that but instead showed a better but more difficult way that allows injustice.

 

[Porque77]

Porque77 said: ↑
All wrong. The people received the Law under Moses. After, Jewish scribes changed the law and so was the Old Testament before Jesus Christ was born: The Law was changed with many precepts of men. Jesus again taught the true law of God..

Do you realize how totally illogical the above is because one would have had to be there to witness such events, and I doubt you're that old. Now, I'm pretty close to being that ol... er, I mean mature.

No need to have been there, as the Gospel teaches us all that God had given Moses, because the Law of the Gospel is the true law of God.

Everything that contradicts the Law of the Gospel is not God's Law.

Jesus Christ abolished many precepts of the Old Testament because those precepts were only precepts of men. In the following quotations from the Gospel, you can see some precepts of the Old Testament that Jesus Christ abolished:

 

[Porque77]

Porque77 said "The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)"

I believe the eye for an eye was not retaliation but how justice was meted out. Jesus did not change that but instead showed a better but more difficult way that allows injustice.

Whether you like it or you do not like, it is the law of retaliation, and that law was abolished by Jesus Christ.

You have to be simple. That law commanded eye for eye, tooth for tooth, and Jesus overturned that law.

That law was unmercifully, and Christians must be merciful.

 

[Muffled]

Whether you like it or you do not like, it is the law of retaliation, and that law was abolished by Jesus Christ.

You have to be simple. That law commanded eye for eye, tooth for tooth, and Jesus overturned that law.

That law was unmercifully, and Christians must be merciful.

I believe there never was a commandment as such. There were ordinances which are laws. The one in question when put in context was about a person doing harm to a pregnant woman. The loss of the child was to be recompensed by money but any other harm had to be commensurate to the harm caused.

I believe Jesus did not overturn the law but simply showed a better way.

I don't believe laws require mercy only justice. A judge may show mercy if he wishes but he is not required to do so. Christians are not under any law or commandments either so there is no requirement to be merciful but that way is open to us if we can do it. Not even God provides mercy all the time so He wouldn't require of us what He doesn't do Himself.

 

[Porque77]

Whether you like it or you do not like, it is the law of retaliation, and that law was abolished by Jesus Christ.

You have to be simple. That law commanded eye for eye, tooth for tooth, and Jesus overturned that law.

That law was unmercifully, and Christians must be merciful.

I believe there never was a commandment as such. There were ordinances which are laws. The one in question when put in context was about a person doing harm to a pregnant woman. The loss of the child was to be recompensed by money but any other harm had to be commensurate to the harm caused.

Not so as you say. This law commanded "eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". And this law is written also in Leviticus:

" And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour, as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him". (Leviticus 24:19-20)

I believe Jesus did not overturn the law but simply showed a better way.

You do not want to acknowledge that Jesus annulled the law of "eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But the teaching of Jesus is simple, because He taught not to do "eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth," but if someone hurts us on one cheek, we must also turn the other cheek. That's annul the law of eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. You must be simple and adjust to what the Gospel teaches.

I don't believe laws require mercy only justice. A judge may show mercy if he wishes but he is not required to do so. Christians are not under any law or commandments either so there is no requirement to be merciful but that way is open to us if we can do it. Not even God provides mercy all the time so He wouldn't require of us what He doesn't do Himself.

What you believe is one thing, and what the Gospel teaches is quite another. God is always merciful, and Jesus taught that what God wants is mercy, and commanded us to be merciful. So God does require us to be merciful. Jesus Christ said:

"Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful" (Luke 6: 31-36).

 

[metis]

No need to have been there, as the Gospel teaches us all that God had given Moses, because the Law of the Gospel is the true law of God.

Everything that contradicts the Law of the Gospel is not God's Law.

Jesus Christ abolished many precepts of the Old Testament because those precepts were only precepts of men. In the following quotations from the Gospel, you can see some precepts of the Old Testament that Jesus Christ abolished:

False, as Jesus supposedly said that he did not come to end the Law. And wouldn't it be rather ironic that Jesus would quote or paraphrase from the Tanakh if it included so many errors? There is absolutely no way that anyone could ascertain "the true law of God" unless they were omniscient or were God themselves.

So, all that you are doing is stating your personal beliefs as if they were facts.

 

[Muffled]

Muffled said: ↑
I believe there never was a commandment as such. There were ordinances which are laws. The one in question when put in context was about a person doing harm to a pregnant woman. The loss of the child was to be recompensed by money but any other harm had to be commensurate to the harm caused.
Porque77 said:
"Not so as you say. This law commanded "eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". And this law is written also in Leviticus:"

" And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour, as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him". (Leviticus 24:19-20)

Again I believe this is offered to offset what is not a commensurate punishment as shown here:
Lev 24:14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.

 

[firedragon]

False, as Jesus supposedly said that he did not come to end the Law. And wouldn't it be rather ironic that Jesus would quote or paraphrase from the Tanakh if it included so many errors? There is absolutely no way that anyone could ascertain "the true law of God" unless they were omniscient or were God themselves.

So, all that you are doing is stating your personal beliefs as if they were facts.

You are correct.

But in this particular matter, Jesus makes this statement.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

 

[Porque77]

No need to have been there, as the Gospel teaches us all that God had given Moses, because the Law of the Gospel is the true law of God.

Everything that contradicts the Law of the Gospel is not God's Law.

Jesus Christ abolished many precepts of the Old Testament because those precepts were only precepts of men.

False, as Jesus supposedly said that he did not come to end the Law.......

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel).

The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .

In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.

Now I also remember the Law of Jesus Christ expressed in commandments, as the Gospel teaches:

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22

And this law and these commandments are in effect for all peoples.

However, no one is under the laws of the Old Testament that were abolished by Jesus Christ, because those laws were not true Law of God. We are all under the Law and the commandments of Christ, which are the only true Law of God.

 

[metis]

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel).

The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .

In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.

Now I also remember the Law of Jesus Christ expressed in commandments, as the Gospel teaches:

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22

And this law and these commandments are in effect for all peoples.

However, no one is under the laws of the Old Testament that were abolished by Jesus Christ, because those laws were not true Law of God. We are all under the Law and the commandments of Christ, which are the only true Law of God.

Let me suggest that you actually read what I posted before commenting and/or quoting scripture.

 

[Porque77]

Let me suggest that you actually read what I posted before commenting and/or quoting scripture.

I read what you said, and for that, I did answer this:

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel).

The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .

In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.

Now I also remember the Law of Jesus Christ expressed in commandments, as the Gospel teaches:

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22

And this law and these commandments are in effect for all peoples.

However, no one is under the laws of the Old Testament that were abolished by Jesus Christ, because those laws were not true Law of God. We are all under the Law and the commandments of Christ, which are the only true Law of God.

 

[paarsurrey]

I read what you said, and for that, I did answer this:

I agree with you.
Jesus wrote neither write any Law, nor dictate any nor authorize anybody to write Law on his behalf. Right? Please
Regards

 

[Muffled]

I agree with you.
Jesus wrote neither write any Law, nor dictate any nor authorize anybody to write Law on his behalf. Right? Please
Regards

I believe Jesus gave commandments. Laws are for men to adjudicate. Commandments are for God to judge whether they are kept or not.