Setting The Bible Reader Straight

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ Read the context of the scripture that were provided for you. They say that God sits, as a judge or governor upon his throne, upon the circle of the earth; or, above the circle; far above this round earth, even in the highest heavens; from whence he looketh down upon the earth, where men appear to him like grasshoppers. He alludes to one that looks down upon the earth below him from some high place. This is the context. It is not saying anywhere in the context or in the scripture you have provided anywhere that the earth if flat. If you disagree please show me where it says in any of those scriptures that the earth is flat. You cannot can you. If you cannot why do you pretend that the scriptures are saying things that they are not saying?

Now may I ask you a question? Do you believe that there is a God? If not can you prove scientifically or otherwise that there is no God being an athiest? If you cannot prove that there is no God does this not concern you that you could be wrong and if you are wrong does this not worry you that maybe you could actually find yourself fighting with God who we all must stand before come judgment day? Just interested to see what you think and if you can provide an honest answer. You do not have to answer these questions if you do not want to. Maybe they can be for you to think about for yourself and answer.

Thank you for the discussion

Your response...

This is merely reinterpretation after the fact. You only interpret it this way because you know the Earth is a sphere. There is no context that saves you. If your version of God is correct there is no "above the Earth" . It would be more appropriate as describing God as everywhere. There is no "above a spherical Earth". The Bible only describes the world as flat. You have to go into a song and dance every time an example of a Flat Earth is found, yet you cannot find any spherical Earth verses. As to your vain threat. Why aren't you worried about the Flying Spaghetti Monster? You might find yourself to be fighting against God (Quob). Also, you should try to learn what atheism is.

Not really. It is the context that you left out of the scripture you were trying to say says the earth is flat but does not. It shown why you are in error. It is not my interpretation it is what the scriptures say in the context scriptures that you left out.

Your welcome

 

[3rdAngel]

It may well be "one of the smallest seeds known in Israel" but it certainly isn't "the smallest of all seeds" as Jesus contends.

Mark 4:31
"It is like a mustard seed, which, when sown upon the ground, is the smallest of all the seeds on earth;"​

The actual Greek Lexicon Matthew 13:32 says this (read the highlighted which is the actual Greek translation (Greek words added and brackets denotes added in by the translators - not in the Greek)..

"[It is] like ὡς a mustard σινάπεως seed, κόκκῳ which, ὃς when ὅταν sown σπαρῇ upon the soil, γῆς though it is smaller μικρότερον than all πάντων the seeds σπερμάτων that are upon the soil γῆς

Adding the above to the context of Matthew 13:31-32 it is in relation to a parable and faith which says...

Matthew 13:31-32 [31], Another parable put he forth to them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: [32], Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Jesus was not giving a technical discussion on horticulture comparing all seeds and trees of the earth. The next thing I am sure you will start saying is that the Kingdom of Heaven is a mustard seed because it says; "The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed.."

Fact is my friend it is a parable showing how faith can grow. That being said the size of the mustard seed is in relation to what it becomes - a tree that the birds of the field can nest in. Jesus used the smallest seed familiar to a native people and farmers in that region — a small seed that unlike an orchid seed grows to have “big branches that the birds in the air can perch in”—to illustrate that the kingdom of God began in obscurity but would one day “fill the earth” which is what we are seeing today.

For this parable the mustard tree was indeed one of the smallest seeds known and used in Israel and for it's size that turned into one of the largest trees relative to the seeds size. I challenge you to show me a smaller seed that grows into a larger tree known in Israel in the days of JESUS that his listeners would be able to recognise and relate to? There is none. It is clear that your interpretation of the scriptures is in error.

You may not like it but JESUS spoke the truth. This is shown historically, regionally and botainically. The mustard tree has the smallest of seeds that can grow into the largest of trees that the birds of the air can nest in when comparing the size of the seed that was known among the people of the time and was a good illustration for the parable of the day.

Greek Lexicon Matthew 13:32
"[It is] like a mustard seed, which, when sown upon the soil, though it is smaller than all the seeds upon the soil

It does not say what you want it to say. Perhaps you should dig a little deeper

Hope this helps

 

[Skwim]

The actual Greek Lexicon Matthew 13:32 says this (read the highlighted which is the actual Greek translation (Greek words added and brackets denotes added in by the translators - not in the Greek)..

"[It is] like ὡς a mustard σινάπεως seed, κόκκῳ which, ὃς when ὅταν sown σπαρῇ upon the soil, γῆς though it is smaller μικρότερον than all πάντων the seeds σπερμάτων that are upon the soil γῆς

Adding the above to the context of Matthew 13:31-32 it is in relation to a parable and faith which says...

Matthew 13:31-32 [31], Another parable put he forth to them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: [32], Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

Jesus was not giving a technical discussion on horticulture comparing all seeds and trees of the earth. The next thing I am sure you will start saying is that the Kingdom of Heaven is a mustard seed because it says; "The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed.."

Fact is my friend it is a parable showing how faith can grow. That being said the size of the mustard seed is in relation to what it becomes - a tree that the birds of the field can nest in. Jesus used the smallest seed familiar to a native people and farmers in that region — a small seed that unlike an orchid seed grows to have “big branches that the birds in the air can perch in”—to illustrate that the kingdom of God began in obscurity but would one day “fill the earth” which is what we are seeing today.

For this parable the mustard tree was indeed one of the smallest seeds known and used in Israel and for it's size that turned into one of the largest trees relative to the seeds size. I challenge you to show me a smaller seed that grows into a larger tree known in Israel in the days of JESUS that his listeners would be able to recognise and relate to? There is none. It is clear that your interpretation of the scriptures is in error.

You may not like it but JESUS spoke the truth. This is shown historically, regionally and botainically. The mustard tree has the smallest of seeds that can grow into the largest of trees that the birds of the air can nest in when comparing the size of the seed that was known among the people of the time and was a good illustration for the parable of the day.

Greek Lexicon Matthew 13:32
"[It is] like a mustard seed, which, when sown upon the soil, though it is smaller than all the seeds upon the soil

It does not say what you want it to say. Perhaps you should dig a little deeper

Hope this helps

My uncle once nearly blew out his *** straining as much as you do here to save your Jesus, but it just ain't selling 3rdAngel. Far too much contrived fiction.

In any case, your failure here is duly noted, and maybe somebody somewhere cares about your efforts, but as for me; have a good day.

.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not at all. The wise in God's eyes are those who believe and follow his Word *PSALMS 107:42-43; PROVERBS 3:35; PROVERBS 14:6; PROVERBS 10:8; . According to the scriptures the fool says in his heart there is no God *PSALMS 14:1

Once again the use of defensive verses is an admission that you are wrong since most religions tend to have them. And Psalms 14 : 1 would be just as correct if it said "The fools says in his heart that there is a God". Think about it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your reponse...

Context determines the topic of the conversation. There is nothing in the context of ISAIAH 40:17-25 that is talking about a flat earth. The scriptures say that God sits, as a judge or governor upon his throne, upon the circle of the earth; or, above the circle; far above this round earth, even in the highest heavens; from whence he looketh down upon the earth, where men appear to him like grasshoppers. He alludes to one that looks down upon the earth below him from some high place. This is the context.

If you disagree please show me the scripture that says the earth is flat. Context matters and you have provided none and it shows why you are in error.

Your welcome

There is no "above" when it comes to a round earth. You now appear to be thinking as a flat Earther. Where is "above the Earth? Is that somewhere above the North Pole? The equator? Or above the South Pole? Above the North Pole is a totally different direction from above the South Pole. The verse only works if the Earth is flat. And it uses terminology that applies to a Flat Earth and not a spherical one.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your response...


Hmm someone did not read the post they were quoting from did they. As posted in the quote you are quoting from the map was provided only to show what was the known world and the world ruling Kingdom in the days of JESUS in relation to "I will show you the kingdoms of the world" and that was the Roman empire. It did not say that JESUS could see every part of the Roman Empire. Please do not pretend I was saying things I have never said. That is simply being dishonest on your behalf. The post did not say he would see everything in the map.

Hope this helps

Again this is a failure on your part. He could have seen very little of the Roman Empire. That is what we have been trying to get you to understand. At the local heights he would have seen about 100 miles in any direction at the most. This is a verse that simply does not work with a spherical Earth. It is an implication that the Earth is flat.

 

[3rdAngel]

Again this is a failure on your part. He could have seen very little of the Roman Empire. That is what we have been trying to get you to understand. At the local heights he would have seen about 100 miles in any direction at the most. This is a verse that simply does not work with a spherical Earth. It is an implication that the Earth is flat.

As posted in the quote you are quoting from the map was provided only to show what was the known world and the world ruling Kingdom in the days of JESUS in relation to "I will show you the kingdoms of the world" and that was the Roman empire.

It did not say that JESUS could see every part of the Roman Empire. Please do not pretend I was saying things I have never said. That is simply being dishonest on your behalf. The post did not say he would see everything in the map. Your only trying to twist what was shared with you as you do the scriptures because you do not know them. It seems you are not reading what you a quoting from before posting or your not being honest about it.

Hope this helps

 

[3rdAngel]

My uncle once nearly blew out his *** straining as much as you do here to save your Jesus, but it just ain't selling 3rdAngel. Far too much contrived fiction.

In any case, your failure here is duly noted, and maybe somebody somewhere cares about your efforts, but as for me; have a good day.

.

Sure it is. You just do not believe it. Neither did you address anything in the post and scriptures provided in it that show why your interpretation of the scriptures is in error.

Thank you and you have a nice day too

 

[3rdAngel]

Once again the use of defensive verses is an admission that you are wrong since most religions tend to have them. And Psalms 14 : 1 would be just as correct if it said "The fools says in his heart that there is a God". Think about it.

Not really. It was appropriate to the post it was responding to in relation to wisdom and a fool that says in his heart there is no God. Your post here has nothing to do with the context to the post that I was responding to and why these scriptures were provided. Then again you are good at taking things out of context thinking that it does not matter in interpretation of what is being said. Can you prove there is no God? If you cannot why do you deny God? Something to think about .

 

[3rdAngel]

There is no "above" when it comes to a round earth. You now appear to be thinking as a flat Earther. Where is "above the Earth? Is that somewhere above the North Pole? The equator? Or above the South Pole? Above the North Pole is a totally different direction from above the South Pole. The verse only works if the Earth is flat. And it uses terminology that applies to a Flat Earth and not a spherical one.

Sure there is. In space on the earth, above and below is wherever you maybe on the earth which is determined by gravity. There is no up and down in space as up and down is everywhere in space depending on where gravity is. "Down" is simply the direction gravity is pulling you, and "up" is just the opposite direction wherever you are on earth. This means in the scriptures that God is everywhere! Our planet is only one of many planets and stars in one of many universes and galaxies. Since there is gravity everywhere in space, there is also an up and down everywhere in all directions in space. Seems you failed Astronomy. There is no flat earth so the rest of your post has no merit. It is only you trying to deny God's Word with your own words which are not God's Word but your words.

Your welcome

 

[Subduction Zone]

As posted in the quote you are quoting from the map was provided only to show what was the known world and the world ruling Kingdom in the days of JESUS in relation to "I will show you the kingdoms of the world" and that was the Roman empire.

It did not say that JESUS could see every part of the Roman Empire. Please do not pretend I was saying things I have never said. That is simply being dishonest on your behalf. The post did not say he would see everything in the map. Your only trying to twist what was shared with you as you do the scriptures because you do not know them.

Hope this helps

He could only show a couple of countries of the Roman Empire. You are clutching at straws, and ignoring context.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not really. It was appropriate to the post it was responding to in relation to wisdom and a fool that says in his heart there is no God. Your post here has nothing to do with the context to the post that I was responding to and why these scriptures were provided. Then again you are good at taking things out of context thinking that it does not matter in interpretation of what is being said. Can you prove there is no God? If you cannot why do you deny God? Something to think about .

No, defensive verses are never appropriate. It is once again an admission that one is wrong.

By the way, I don't know of any atheists that say in their heart that there is no God. That argument is a typical strawman of the gullible.

And you have it backwards. It is not up to atheists to prove that there is no God. It is up to believers to prove that their God exists. Why do you think that atheists need to prove that their is no God? Can you prove that there is no Bigfoot?

 

[3rdAngel]

He could only show a couple of countries of the Roman Empire. You are clutching at straws, and ignoring context.

Not at all the scriptures do not say how Jesus was shown the kingdoms. Seeing with physical eye sight is your assumption. As far as the eye can see is simply showing everthing the eye can see. Everything from the known world at that time was controlled by the Roman Empire. This was what the temptation was over. You can have everything if you bow down and worship me

 

[3rdAngel]

No, defensive verses are never appropriate. It is once again an admission that one is wrong.

Sure it is context matters. You have provided none and are only seeking to make arguments that do not exist because you do not believe in God.

By the way, I don't know of any atheists that say in their heart that there is no God. That argument is a typical strawman of the gullible.

I see. So you believe in God?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not at all the scriptures do not say how Jesus was shown the kingdoms. Seeing with physical eye sight is your assumption. As far as the eye can see is simply showing everthing the eye can see. Everything from the known world at that time was controlled by the Roman Empire. This was what the temptation was over. You can have everything if you bow down and worship me

You need to ask yourself why the Bible does not state that Satan showed him a vision, which is what you are in effect claiming. And why would Jesus's power be limited to the Roman world? Does not Satan operate everywhere in your beliefs?

 

[3rdAngel]

It is not up to atheists to prove that there is no God. It is up to believers to prove that their God exists. Why do you think that atheists need to prove that their is no God?

Your the one that does not believe in God yet you cannot prove that God does not exist. Does this not worry you? It should as it means that you are only holding on to a belief you cannot prove.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sure it is context matters. You have provided none and are only seeking to make arguments that do not exist because you do not believe in God.

I see. So you believe in God?

I always said that it can matter. You have not been paying attention. But you claimed "context" in the past but could not do so. All that you did was to demonstrate Flat Earth thinking of your own. The one verse that I brought up has not been shown to need any context to be interpreted differently.

 

[3rdAngel]

You need to ask yourself why the Bible does not state that Satan showed him a vision, which is what you are in effect claiming. And why would Jesus's power be limited to the Roman world? Does not Satan operate everywhere in your beliefs?

Not at all I am not assuming or reading into the scripture things it does not say. This is what you are doing and why you do not understand the scriptures as your only reading them from your view that there is no God. Until you change your thinking you will never know God or His Word because you do not know God or his Word.

 

[3rdAngel]

I always said that it can matter. You have not been paying attention. But you claimed "context" in the past but could not do so. All that you did was to demonstrate Flat Earth thinking of your own. The one verse that I brought up has not been shown to need any context to be interpreted differently.

Your just repeating yourself here and this content has already been addressed elsewhere. I noticed you avoided answering my question. Do you believe in God?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your the one that does not believe in God yet you cannot prove that God does not exist. Does this not worry you? It should as it means that you are only holding on to a belief you cannot prove.

Right, I do not believe in a God. I do not need to prove that one does not exist. You are now guilty of trying to shift the burden of proof.

Are you worried abut The Flying Spaghetti Monster? (Ramen). Once again you have demonstrated that you do not understand the burden of proof. Now it is a lie to claim that I am lying. You may believe that lie, but that does not mean that you did not just break the Ninth Commandment. Another concept that you do not understand.

The burden of proof is upon you when you claim that your God exists. You need to learn how to think logically. The null hypothesis is essentially a lack of belief in a claim. When it comes to a god belief the null hypothesis position would be atheism. A lack of belief.