Man made traditions from the Church or the Word of God - Who do you believe and follow?

[3rdAngel]

There are no teachings of Jesus in the OT.

Sure there are. The old testament scripture come from JESUS who is the creator of Heaven and Earth. Do you not know these things and are you a teacher in a church?

 

[3rdAngel]

Ok, well, then you need to learn internet etiquette. Bold, capitalization, underlining and italics denote SHOUTING!
You’ve demonstrated nothing except your belief. Please provide evidence for your outburst.

Well to me it was only emphasising a word. I have provided evidence for everything I have shared here through the scriptures. Seems you do not believe them.

 

[3rdAngel]

Backpedal much? You know what the Bible says about lying.

No need you have only made claims that are not true. So it is you putting lies claiming things that are not, not me

 

[3rdAngel]

Then there should be an explicitly-stated standard that is evident and easy to follow. In what book, chapter and verse can that be found?


Not pertinent to the question asked.


Okay, so we can’t gather bread or bake.

so, if someone is hungry and all you have is meal, it’s OK to bake. That completely discounts your statement above.

Where’s the definitive list I asked for? Book, chapter, verse.

Oh, and what do we do when our work is preaching the Gospel? Presents a conundrum according to your criteria.

I don’t see anything here other than what you have “decided” these disparate verses mean. There is no definitive, explicit statement of criteria or list of activities. I asked for an explicit chapter and verse stating what is considered “necessary” and “unnecessary.” You’ve failed to provide that chapter and verse.

Thank you for proving my point

 

[3rdAngel]

Nope. No list. Sorry. This is nothing more than what you say the texts say. IOW, it’s a teaching of men, which you said we’re not supposed to follow.

I will let others look at the scriptures. I believe it is clear you do not understand them. MATTHEW 15:2-9 states if we follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not following God but men

 

[3rdAngel]

No. You said that God planned the crucifixion. You said that. You said this specifically about the crucifixion.

That everyone will die has always been known; we’re mortal, for Pete’s sake!! It’s not like only 60% of us will die at some point...
What a lame excuse for a “biblical” answer. Holy monkey!

Sorry my friend I have no idea what your talking about. It was you that said ...

sooda said: ↑ Wasn't Jesus' crucifixion part of God's plan?

For which I posted scripture support... your clutching at straws. How Christ died is irrelavent. That he would die was always known from the foundation of the world.....

John 1:29 [29], The next day John sees Jesus coming to him, and said, Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world.

1 Peter 1:18-20 [18], For as much as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; [19], But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: [20], Who truly was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things to himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby

1 Peter 1:18-19 [18], For as much as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; [19], But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Luke 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, you have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain

Romans 3:25 Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who sometimes were far off are made near by the blood of Christ.

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Hope this helps...

 

[sojourner]

God is indeed in control of what he wants fulfilled in this world

If God desires that all come to him — IOW, if wants the fulfillment of the reconciliation of humanity, why is it you say that many will not come to him? Seems like you need a better theology to me.

No one needs scholarship to understand God's Word when it is God's promise to be our guide and teacher in His Word

Somehow, i don’t think Bible interpretation is what Jesus had in mind when he said that.

 

[sojourner]

Sure there are. The old testament scripture come from JESUS who is the creator of Heaven and Earth. Do you not know these things and are you a teacher in a church?

What in the H.E. Double-toothpicks are you talking about? “In the Beginning, God created... there’s no Jesus mentioned in Genesis. At all. the Creation narratives come to us from Sumerian myth.

 

[sojourner]

Well to me it was only emphasising a word. I have provided evidence for everything I have shared here through the scriptures. Seems you do not believe them.

Your unfounded beliefs aren’t evidence. You’ll have to do much, much better than that.

 

[sojourner]

No need you have only made claims that are not true. So it is you putting lies claiming things that are not, not me

Look, I can’t help it if you can’t understand. Lord knows we’ve tried to straighten out your history, theology, and bible criticism. But just because you choose not to understand doesn’t make what we’re saying a “lie.”

 

[sojourner]

Thank you for proving my point

What point? That you have no idea what you’re talking about? You’re welcome!

 

[sojourner]

I will let others look at the scriptures. I believe it is clear you do not understand them. MATTHEW 15:2-9 states if we follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not following God but men

Then why in the world are you presenting us with your man-made teachings — leading us all astray as to what the Bible really says? Why? Why? Why would you do that? Why would you want us to follow you, when all we want is to follow God? Doesn’t this run afoul of what you’ve told us the Bible says?

 

[sojourner]

Sorry my friend I have no idea what your talking about

Well praise God and pass the whisky!!! He finally admits it!

For which I posted scripture support... your clutching at straws. How Christ died is irrelavent. That he would die was always known from the foundation of the world

The question was asked whether crucifixion was in God’s plan. Now, crucifixion is irrelevant? But yet you tell us that, somehow, it is part of God’s plan?

And again, even the densest of Cro-Magnons knew that we would all die at some time. That Jesus would die isn’t some kind of miraculous prophecy. It’s God’s “plan” (I prefer “in our nature”) for all mortals to die. We don’t need a bible to figure that out.

Please do us a favor and take “bible 101.” And then go to Amazon and buy a copy of My First Big Picture Book of Theology so you can keep up with the rest of us.

 

[3rdAngel]

If God desires that all come to him — IOW, if wants the fulfillment of the reconciliation of humanity, why is it you say that many will not come to him? Seems like you need a better theology to me.

No I just believe the scriptures....

MATTHEW 7:13-14 [13], Enter you in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and BROAD IS THE WAY, THAT LEADS TO DESTRUCTION, AND MANY THERE BE WHICH GO IN THEREAT: [14], BECAUSE STRAIT IS THE GATE, AND NARROW IS THE WAY, WHICH LEADS TO LIFE, AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.

MATTHEW 22:14 [14], FOR MANY ARE CALLED, BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN.

MATTHEW 7:21-23 [21]Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT HE THAT DOES THE WILL of my Father which is in heaven. [22], MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? [23], And then will I profess to them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YOU THAT WORK INIQUITY.

LUKE 13:24 [24], Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for MANY, I SAY TO YOU, WILL SEEK TO ENTER IN, AND SHALL NOT BE ABLE.

JOHN 3:36 [36], He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVES NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE; BUT THE WRATH OF GOD STAYS ON HIM.

1 PETER 4:17-18 [17], For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? [18], And IF THE RIGHTEOUS SCARCELY BE SAVED, WHERE SHALL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR?

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS, [27], BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.

Somehow, i don’t think Bible interpretation is what Jesus had in mind when he said that.

Sure it does...

JOHN 14:26 [26], But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, HE SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, AND BRING ALL THINGS TO YOUR REMEMBRANCE, WHATEVER I HAVE SAID TO YOU.

JOHN 16:13 [13], However, when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and HE WILL SHOW YOU THINGS TO COME.

JOHN 7:17 [17], IF ANY MAN WILL DO HIS WILL, HE SHALL KNOW OF THE DOCTRINE, WHETHER IT BE OF GOD, OR WHETHER I SPEAK OF MYSELF.

Hope this helps

 

[3rdAngel]

What in the H.E. Double-toothpicks are you talking about? “In the Beginning, God created... there’s no Jesus mentioned in Genesis. At all. the Creation narratives come to us from Sumerian myth.

JESUS is God, and you are a teacher in the church that does not know this?

JOHN 1:1-4; 14 [1], In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD.
[2], THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD. [3], ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE. [4], In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[14], And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELLED AMONG US, AND WE BEHELD HIS GLORY, THE GLORY AS OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH.

EPHESIANS 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in God, WHO CREATED ALL THINGS BY JESUS CHRIST

COLOSSIANS 1:14-16 [14], In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:[15], Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature

[16]FOR BY HIM WERE ALL THINGS CREATED, THAT ARE IN HEAVEN, AND THAT ARE IN EARTH, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

REVELATION 4:11 You are worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: FOR YOU HAVE CREATED ALL THINGS, AND FOR YOUR PLEASURE THEY ARE AND WERE CREATED.

JOHN 8:58 Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS, I AM.

HEBREWS 1:1-3; [1], God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, [2], HAS IN THESE LAST DAYS SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON, WHOM HE HAS APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS; [3], Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

HEBREWS 1:8-10 [8], But TO THE SON HE SAID, YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOR EVER AND EVER: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom. [9], You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows. [10], AND, YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING HAVE LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH; AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS

Yep too many scriptures here...

Hope this helps

 

[3rdAngel]

Your unfounded beliefs aren’t evidence. You’ll have to do much, much better than that.

Not really as shown all through this thead and elsewhere my beliefs are founded and supported by the scriptures that are provided. It is very clear I believe that your beliefs are not.

 

[3rdAngel]

Look, I can’t help it if you can’t understand. Lord knows we’ve tried to straighten out your history, theology, and bible criticism. But just because you choose not to understand doesn’t make what we’re saying a “lie.”

Why would I need to ask you for help when you do not even know the scriptures and do not believe them? All I hear from you are empty words, claims and accusations that are not biblical and I believe have no basis in truth.

 

[3rdAngel]

What point? That you have no idea what you’re talking about? You’re welcome!

No, I believe that you do not know what your talking about because you do not believe the scriptures. Your only proving my point as when you are provided the scriptures all you do is deny God's Word with your own words that are not God's but yours and make claims an accusations you cannot prove.

 

[3rdAngel]

Then why in the world are you presenting us with your man-made teachings — leading us all astray as to what the Bible really says? Why? Why? Why would you do that? Why would you want us to follow you, when all we want is to follow God? Doesn’t this run afoul of what you’ve told us the Bible says?

MATTHEW 15:2-9 are the very words of God himself. They are not my words but God's Word.
For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day.

 

[3rdAngel]

Well praise God and pass the whisky!!! He finally admits it! The question was asked whether crucifixion was in God’s plan. Now, crucifixion is irrelevant? But yet you tell us that, somehow, it is part of God’s plan? And again, even the densest of Cro-Magnons knew that we would all die at some time. That Jesus would die isn’t some kind of miraculous prophecy. It’s God’s “plan” (I prefer “in our nature”) for all mortals to die. We don’t need a bible to figure that out.
Please do us a favor and take “bible 101.” And then go to Amazon and buy a copy of My First Big Picture Book of Theology so you can keep up with the rest of us.

There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. Your Words are not directed towards me but to the one who the Word belongs. There is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. These are the things that defile a man. Unless our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees we shall in no wise enter into the Kingdom that he has prepared for those that follow and love him. Truly truly I say unto you unless a man is born again he shall in no wise enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. He that says I know him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. He that commits sin is of the devil because he has neither seen him nor known him. Do you know these scriptures sojourner? If so what do you think they mean?