Is the Religious Right in America gunning for you?

[InChrist]

That is your opinion and no one is forcing you to have an abortion. Your opinion should not matter very much when you want to tell someone else what to do. And you are probably misinterpreting your Bible. The common translation of some verses change after the Right to Life movement began. The took one verse that clearly supported abortion and changed it to make it look as if it opposed it. The God of the Old Testament did not seem to think that fetuses counted as humans. That did not occur until the first breath.. AKA the breath of life.

I am not actually telling anyone else what to do. Just expressing my perspective. Ultimately, everyone makes their own decision.
I don’t know what one verse you are talking about, but usually it’s better to look at any given subject throughout the scriptures.

What does the Bible say about abortion? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am not actually telling anyone else what to do. Just expressing my perspective. Ultimately, everyone makes their own decision.
I don’t know what one verse you are talking about, but usually it’s better to look at any given subject throughout the scriptures.

What does the Bible say about abortion? | GotQuestions.org

Sorry but your source is guilty of a rather classic failure. The interpretation of Exodus 21 22-25 is not accurate. Before the pro-life movement it was translated as a fine if the woman lost her fetus. The death penalty only applied if the woman got killed, not the fetus. You have to question a source that finds it necessary to reinterpret its holy book to justify their position. Also it does not even mention the fact that priests in the Old Testament could administer a chemical abortion, against the mother's consent. So it changed one clear verse that supported evolution and ignores a clear case of abortion in the Old Testament.

 

[Sedim Haba]

I think he is asking if their perspective is to stop others having a perspective. Like a Jew in Warsaw in the 1940's recognising the "perspective" of Himmler.

I recognise they have a right to have a perspective, I'm just not obliged to agree with it, or simply roll over and let them take away civil rights. Though I live in the UK, so these appalling laws won't impact people here. I feel desperately sorry for women who fall under their influence.

Think so?

I can easily see the next laws being murder charges filed against any woman who's had an abortion.
It's the next logical step. No matter where, or when. There is no statute of limitations on murder.
So I can see a UK woman who had one, and steps off a plane in certain states being arrested for murder.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Think so?

I can easily see the next laws being murder charges filed against any woman who's had an abortion.
It's the next logical step. No matter where, or when. There is no statute of limitations on murder.
So I can see a UK woman who had one, and steps off a plane in certain states being arrested for murder.

There is a problem when one relies upon single issue voters. The anti-abortionists have a stranglehold on the Republican party right now. The problem is that this is like the dog that finally caught the car. Now that he has it what does he do? Especially since in the US there is a 59% majority that thinks that abortion should be legal. Look forward to this fall's election. The Republicans just gave up one of their big draws to get people out to the polls and the Democrats and the huge number of people in the middle just found a reason to vote Democratic.

 

[Sedim Haba]

There is a problem when one relies upon single issue voters. The anti-abortionists have a stranglehold on the Republican party right now. The problem is that this is like the dog that finally caught the car. Now that he has it what does he do? Especially since in the US there is a 59% majority that thinks that abortion should be legal. Look forward to this fall's election. The Republicans just gave up one of their big draws to get people out to the polls and the Democrats and the huge number of people in the middle just found a reason to vote Democratic.

I see it the opposite. They're on a roll, and energized. There's plenty of other rights to take away!
'anti-abortionists' will also be anti-gay. Goodbye gay rights next. Why, the sky's the limit, man!

 

[Sheldon]

Do you know for a fact that God the Creator “murders” because He wants to?

Yes according the bible. King David's newborn baby that the biblical deity is depicted as torturing to death over 7 days for example, because he was angered that the baby had been born to an adulterous relationship.

 

[Sheldon]

Well, there are some laws in this country and just about every country against murdering another, for the protection of life. Why should the lives of pre-born infants be excluded.?

There is no such thing as preborn infant, that's an oxymoron, and the rights a society assigns to a developing foetus must obviously reflect the fact it is part of a woman's body, since it would be absurd to grant rights to a clump of insentient cells, that take away the rights of the pregnant woman whose body they are part of.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

There is no such thing as preborn infant, that's an oxymoron, and the rights a society assigns to a developing foetus must obviously reflect the fact it is part of a woman's body, since it would be absurd to grant rights to a clump of insentient cells, that take away the rights of the pregnant woman whose body they are part of.

I am glad you say assign.

 

[Sheldon]

For one thing, I don’t tell people what they can and cannot do. I can tell someone I think murdering their neighbor is wrong, but can I stop someone from doing so? No. We have laws against murder in this country. I didn’t come up with those. Do you want laws against murder rescinded?

Murder is a legal term, why would you want to class shedding some insentient cells as murder, you do this every time you scratch yourself.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Murder is a legal term, why you want to class shedding some insentient cells as murder, you do this every time you scratch yourself.

That is a part of it, but not all of it.

 

[Sheldon]

If pre-born infants are not persons what are they?

An oxymoron you have created?

Egg, embryo, blastocyst or zygot, and then a developing foetus. None of those are a person, since they remain part of a woman's body. An infant is small child, is that what you think a blastocyst is?

You keep asserting the first picture is in fact the second, what do you hope to gain from such dishonest rhetoric, beyond erroneous appeals to emotion?

The Bible indicates they are, from what I see in the scriptures.

The biblical deity had no problem drowning countless babies, and pregnant women in a global genocide, according to the Noah flood myth, so it's hardly a sound moral metric for how we should treat each other.

 

[Sheldon]

You once were just that size and looked just like that tiny, precisely formed human. Anyone and everyone you know, love and value was, also. All of us were.

We were also once sperm and an egg, what's your point? We are sentient, as is a baby, a blastocyst, embryo or foetus is not. Certainly not in the sense a pregnant woman is.

 

[Sheldon]

Seems as if mother and doctor act as judge and executioner in that the unborn is not fit for life.

It seems as if you are projecting your own views onto others, with a pretty clumsy straw man fallacy.

In Scripture I find the parents are to be responsible for minors - 1 Corinthians 7:14

In scripture we see a deity that murders infants babies and pregnant women indiscriminately, even on a global scale, an encourages its human followers to do the same. hardly a sound metric for a moral treatment of anyone.

 

[Sheldon]

In Scripture there is No consenting for fornicators and adulterers.

So what, not everyone has to adhere to archaic religious beliefs because you value them. A price we all pay for living in a democracy is that we sometimes have to hear things we don't like, or even find morally repugnant. You seem to want to sweep democracy away in favour of a theocracy.

Under the Mosaic Law they were to be executed.

And you think that is a moral ethical measured response? That rather says it all.

Often today people use tax-payer money to fund getting rid of an unwanted child or to keep an out-of-wedlock child.

Poverty often means people have less access to proper medical care, and education, it is hardly a surprise that unwanted pregnancies are one result, do you think a woman should have her rights denied because she is poor? That's an appalling notion I must say, but you have the right to believe it and say so, you just don't have the right to force it onto others.

If you don't want an abortion, then don't have one. If you don't think anyone should have an abortion, then don't help anyone have one. just stop trying to demand others adhere to your beliefs.

 

[Sheldon]

You obviously read the wrong garbage.

Well I obviously bow to your expertise in reading garbage.

Approximately the same amount of carbon dioxide that is produced by livestock is actually used by plants during photosynthesis.

And this straw man red herring has what to do with the methane that cattle excrete?

The people who are selling plant-based alternatives are using hype to try and destroy a necessary industry.

Care to evidence this claim that smacks so clearly of paranoid delusion? I see no reason both industries can't co-exist, in fact they already do, so a rather hilarious piece of unevidenced hyperbole from you again.

The cattle and meat industries can survive without destroying the planet I would hope, but only if we eat meat responsibly. However I'm curious which you would rather preserve if it was a binary choice? Genuinely curious actually.

 

[Sheldon]

Yes but the left was all for forcing it.

The left? You just made that piece of ludicrous hyperbole up didn't you.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Funny how it doesn't work that way in real life. The places where you can carry a gun without a permit actually have less crime.
Four years after allowing the universal ‘concealed carry’ law, Maine was rated the safest state in the nation for crime.

To be fair, we also have a very low population, the most forest density out of any state, and our gun culture still has a bit of the old fashioned respect for guns as a weapon and not a toy or ego-enhancer.

 

[Sheldon]

Obviously you don't understand that if self defense is a basic right there's no justification for having to jump through hoops to have a gun.

The easier they are to come by, the more likely a criminal is to have one, and more guns always results in more gun crime. Use all the rhetoric you want, but the facts don't support your argument.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

The US is at the bottom there see? The red line is the rate of gun related homicides annually and the blue line is gun related suicides annually. Those stats are from 2010...

 

[Sheldon]

I never said anything about pot. I have seen no benefit to legalized hallucinations.

Is cannabis an hallucinogen then, I wasn't aware of this. I thought it was classed as a depressant, like alcohol? Do you extend your rational to religious hallucinations?

Medical pot with no getting high potential is a different discussion.

Why?

 

[Wildswanderer]

The cattle and meat industries can survive without destroying the planet I would hope, but only if we eat meat responsibly

Whatever that means. You apparently have a very elementary understanding of these things. Again lots of people out there promoting doing away with the meat industry. It's just not practical and it's a terrible idea. The vast majority of the population needs meat to be healthy. Sure, you can get protein other ways but it's complicated and usually expensive and impractical for most, which is probably one of reasons that 90 some percent of people who go vegan last less than a year.
There's stuff we can do to improve farming practices but that's a long story. If you really want to know, this is a pretty good site to start to learn:
Sacred Cow

Personally I kill a lot of what I eat directly from the woods. So my eating steaks has no negative impact unless you're afraid of deer farts too.