There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Five Solas]

I’ve been reading through a couple of threads, and I see that it is said that there is no evidence for a god, it’s an unfalsifiable idea. We all agree on this? If you don’t, care to explain the evidence there is for god?
I’m in agreement. I used to believe my personal experiences to be subjective evidence for god, but I know now that’s not the case. I am not a theist anymore because I recognize I was a Christian thanks almost completely to my environment. That’s why I believed. I was brought up in it. Wasn’t because of any proof or anything,
So, theists, why do you believe? Is it mainly because of your environment and geographical location? There is no proof for god (right?), so what logically keeps you believing? Or is logic not supposed to be a factor when it comes to faith? Is it too jarring, the idea of leaving the comfort that religion and belief in a god brings?
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?

Hi,

Your question is essentially the 'truth question'. In other words, what is truth or what is true? What makes a statement true or what makes a belief true? It's a huge topic.

So, if someone claims there is a God, what makes it true or false?

What you are saying is that if it (God) cannot be proven then it must be false. That is a massive claim to make. I do not think you will be able to successfully defend that claim. That does, for example, imply that everything that had not been proven (by our senses/observation/science) must be false by default.

That is not a good claim to make. The other side of the coin is what one will accept as proof or evidence? That had also changed dramatically over the centuries.

Another aspect is that if something had been 'proven', is that proof/evidence reliable? Scientists often change their minds. Even scientists believed wrong things in the past. So, will we ever reach a point where we can say we know the truth and nothing but the truth?

To complicate it further, we live in a 'post-truth' society where people 'make' their own truth. The modern gender identity revolution is a good example. Many of the gender claims today are far removed from science and/or objective truths.

Anyway, I'll tell you why I believe. I believe because God had given me faith. And now it is so obvious to me that I find it hard to imagine that people cannot see it for themselves. In short, God does not give faith to all people. And God proves Himself to whomever He chooses.

 

[ElishaElijah]

One huge problem with judging AA's success rate is that they are anonymous. They "self report". But even their rates are only 50% and those that have studied it have found to be much lower. Perhaps only 5 to 10%:

Alcoholics Anonymous has a terrible success rate, addiction expert finds

Did you actually read How it works? Do you know the success rate for those who “ work the steps” ?

HOW IT WORKS Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hi,

Your question is essentially the 'truth question'. In other words, what is truth or what is true? What makes a statement true or what makes a belief true? It's a huge topic.

So, if someone claims there is a God, what makes it true or false?

What you are saying is that if it (God) cannot be proven then it must be false. That is a massive claim to make. I do not think you will be able to successfully defend that claim. That does, for example, imply that everything that had not been proven (by our senses/observation/science) must be false by default.

That is not a good claim to make. The other side of the coin is what one will accept as proof or evidence? That had also changed dramatically over the centuries.

Another aspect is that if something had been 'proven', is that proof/evidence reliable? Scientists often change their minds. Even scientists believed wrong things in the past. So, will we ever reach a point where we can say we know the truth and nothing but the truth?

To complicate it further, we live in a 'post-truth' society where people 'make' their own truth. The modern gender identity revolution is a good example. Many of the gender claims today are far removed from science and/or objective truths.

Anyway, I'll tell you why I believe. I believe because God had given me faith. And now it is so obvious to me that I find it hard to imagine that people cannot see it for themselves. In short, God does not give faith to all people. And God proves Himself to whomever He chooses.

You have confirmation bias. That is common among ardent believers of all sorts of religions. You have not been testing your religion properly.

Can you think of a proper test of your religion?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Did you actually read How it works? Do you know the success rate for those who “ work the steps” ?

HOW IT WORKS Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

I am merely passing the message on. Your rather irrational response is very telling.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I found those doing the source checking to be biased and misleading.

euh.... isn't source checking something you do yourself?

Let me ask you this: Is the Bible a good source for Truth?

Not by itself, no.

 

[ElishaElijah]

euh.... isn't source checking something you do yourself?



Not by itself, no.

That’s it right there, thanks

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Did you actually read How it works? Do you know the success rate for those who “ work the steps” ?

HOW IT WORKS Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

Funny.

Here is my 1-step program to stop drinking:

Step 1: stop drinking.


I can guarantee you that those who follow my complete program all the way through, have a 100% success rate to quit drinking.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I am merely passing the message on. Your rather irrational response is very telling.

Your comments show you know nothing to very little about addiction recovery. The steps of recovery work when you work it and don’t if you don’t work it. So success or failure depends on whether the person is fearless and rigorously honest with themselves working the steps or if they take half measures.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That’s it right there, thanks

What's where?

Care to elaborate a bit or are you fine with this meaningless, explanationless, argumentless one liner?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Funny.

Here is my 1-step program to stop drinking:

Step 1: stop drinking.


I can guarantee you that those who follow my complete program all the way through, have a 100% success rate to quit drinking.

So just say no, lol and another ignorant comment from the peanut gallery
That’s your council to the addict?

 

[Sheldon]

No, not really but in these type forums people can misunderstand what other people are communicating.

You didn't misunderstand what I had said, nor I you, you dishonestly added something I had not said.

As for being dishonest, no that’s not me. We must not be thinking the same things

It's there in emboldened red letter, unless you want everyone to believe that I made a claim that assumed sin was real?

 

[ElishaElijah]

What's where?

Care to elaborate a bit or are you fine with this meaningless, explanationless, argumentless one liner?

Your comment is enough for me to move on.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So just say no, lol and another ignorant comment from the peanut gallery
That’s your council to the addict?

It was a half-joke to illustrate how the reporting of the "success rate" is inherently flawed.

Obviously it went over your head.
I'm positive @Subduction Zone understood it.



Hint: count the hits and ignore the misses.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You didn't misunderstand you added something I had not said.


It's there in emboldened red letter, unless you want everyone to believe that I made a claim that assumed sin was real?

I really have no idea what you’re trying to say? The conversation was ongoing and seems you missed the context.

 

[Sheldon]

I tend to look at the information first and evaluate the source after that.

You may want to change that.

The steps of AA and the Big Book is a spiritual program and right in it says: Rarely have we seen a person fail…
https://ashevilleaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/HOW-IT-WORKS.pdf

Atheists attend AA, and I personally know some who have managed to remain sober without any theistic belief, indeed I know at least one who claimed to find the religious aspect of it mildly annoying and of course redundant.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Your comment is enough for me to move on.

So you don't wish to explain yourself.
Owkay.

I have no clue what your point was but apparently you don't care enough to actually explain it.

That's on you then.

You leave me with no choice but to assume that you had no point and that this is just another instance of the infamous ostrich defense.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your comments show you know nothing to very little about addiction recovery. The steps of recovery work when you work it and don’t if you don’t work it. So success or failure depends on whether the person is fearless and rigorously honest with themselves working the steps or if they take half measures.

I probably know more than you do. I do not cherry pick my knowledge. I was also with someone for quite a while who was an addict. I know why AA fails.

 

[ElishaElijah]

It was a half-joke to illustrate how the reporting of the "success rate" is inherently flawed.

Obviously it went over your head.
I'm positive @Subduction Zone understood it.



Hint: count the hits and ignore the misses.

The success rate isn’t determined by your

So you don't wish to explain yourself.
Owkay.

I have no clue what your point was but apparently you don't care enough to actually explain it.

That's on you then.

You leave me with no choice but to assume that you had no point and that this is just another instance of the infamous ostrich defense.

Doesn’t matter to me what you assume or what you say at this point or @Sheldon or @Subduction Zone.
As far as spiritual matters and addictions, the comments show lack of understanding of AA, addictions, what determines success or failure.
If a person follows instructions they will succeed most of the time, if they don’t they will more than likely fail.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I probably know more than you do. I do not cherry pick my knowledge. I was also with someone for quite a while who was an addict. I know why AA fails.

Are you an addict?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Are you an addict?

No. But she was.