There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
Unlike religion of course, which is left stupidly clinging to erroneous archaic superstition, long after it has been unequivocally falsified.

This is true for all false religions because they are based on superstition.

That's a no true Scotsman fallacy, and you might want to look up the word superstition in a dictionary, as I don't think it means what you think it means.

Jesus Christ rising from the dead hasn’t been proven false after 2000 years because it happened.

Argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy, no one has proven invisible unicorns don't exist, this doesn't lend credence to them being real. Not one shred of objective evidence exists for this superstitious claim.

The evidence of the empty tomb,

There is no such evidence, only anecdotal hearsay, from mostly unknown authors, long after the events they allege to have happened, and of course an empty tomb is not evidence for anything, it is by definition an appeal to mystery.

eyewitness accounts,

There are no eyewitness accounts? What on earth are you talking about, not one word was written about Jesus until decades after he is alleged to have died, and the authors Mathew Mark Luke and John are fictional names assigned centuries later. Did you not know this?

, the fact that lives are still being changed,

Evidences nothing, since other religions with different deities make identical claims, and plenty of people change their lives without any superstitious religious beliefs at all.

demons expelled in His Name are still happening.

A claim you would need to demonstrate some objective evidence for, unevidenced or anecdotal narratives are pretty meaningless. No more compelling than alleged sightings of mermaids.

 

[Sheldon]

Polymath257 said: ↑
No, that is their *belief*. But belief and reality are very different things.

And, once again, the *reality* is determined by observation and testing, not by myth making and faith.

By that standard, no God(s) have been discovered.

By that standard, nothing can be said to be reality.

Nonsense, can you not read? By that standard reality can be verified by objective evidence gathering, observation and testing, but not by myth making and faith.

We don't know everything about anything.

Straw man fallacy yet again, who ever said we did? It's bizarre how religious apologists claim absolute truth, then when the vapid nature of their unevidenced claims are challenged turn on facts established by a weight of objective evidence as unreliable? It's an hilarious about turn...they ought to make a beeping noise when they back up like that?

 

[Sheldon]

There's no such thing as scientific facts on only working theories.

Something can be part of a scientific theory and a scientific fact.

"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world."

 

[Sheldon]

It Aint Necessarily So said: ↑
Yes, there really is a sun. Really. A real sun. And one can know so empirically, experientially

I can know God the same way and do.

You have empirical evidence for a deity? Nonsense, demonstrate it then?

 

[Sheldon]

What were facts of science thirty years ago aren't now.

Of course there are countless facts from far further back that remain scientific facts, and just claimed there are no scientific facts? You're talking utter nonsense. Species evolution and shared ancestry was established over 162 years ago, and remains an accepted scientific fact, entire new branches of science have added to the overwhelming evidence, and in over 162 years of global scientific scrutiny, not to mention the antipathy of religious superstition, it remains an accepted scientific fact.

You claim we are moving forward but you can't know that what we think we know now is anymore accurate than in the past.

Another spectacularly stupid claim, and yes of course one can.

The so called facts will change again.

Which facts, and how do you know they will change, base don what exactly your desire to denigrate science in the preposterous notion this lends credence to your unevidenced superstitious religious beliefs.

And again you just said there are no scientific facts, not there are, you're all at sea here.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're right of course, I'm way too easy going... ask anyone...

It'll probably be denied, rationalised or just waved away anyway. Ah well, pizza, Indian or Chinese is the question now, I shall pour some wine and cogitate my options..

For me it would be either pizza or Indian. I was spoiled when I went to college, we had a very authentic Cantonese Chinese restaurant. It was a very large school, about 50,000 students, and had enough students from China that they could operate almost entirely from their business. I can do better Chinese than most local restaurants so why bother? Indian is not that hard either for most meals, though before Amazon let me get the spices I needed easily I had to go out. I do not bake bread, a skill that I really should add, so for decent pizza i need to go out. There are ways around not having the oven heats needed for a really good pizza.

Tonight I am doing a steak. Baked potato, salad. Hmm, some wine sounds good too.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What were facts of science thirty years ago aren't now. You claim we are moving forward but you can't know that what we think we know now is anymore accurate than in the past. The so called facts will change again.

Do you have specific examples? I do not know of the facts ever changing. Sometimes the interpretation of data changes, but give us a specific fact that has changed.

 

[Sheldon]

For me it would be either pizza or Indian. I was spoiled when I went to college, we had a very authentic Cantonese Chinese restaurant. It was a very large school, about 50,000 students, and had enough students from China that they could operate almost entirely from their business. I can do better Chinese than most local restaurants so why bother? Indian is not that hard either for most meals, though before Amazon let me get the spices I needed easily I had to go out. I do not bake bread, a skill that I really should add, so for decent pizza i need to go out. There are ways around not having the oven heats needed for a really good pizza.

Tonight I am doing a steak. Bake potato, salad. Hmm, some wine sounds good too.

I recommend getting a bread maker as a start, it'll also have a dough setting so you can make rolls and pizza bases. They have gone down a treat with friends and family. I cook my own Indian food as well, but occasionally get a takeaway since we are spoilt for choice here. Beyond chicken fried rice, I've not really dabbled much in Chinese cooking, but I have perfected my recipe...

 

[Subduction Zone]

This is true for all false religions because they are based on superstition. Jesus Christ rising from the dead hasn’t been proven false after 2000 years because it happened. The evidence of the empty tomb, eyewitness accounts, the fact that lives are still being changed, demons expelled in His Name are still happening.

What "eyewitness accounts"? The Gospels were not written by eyewitnesses and all of them were over a generation after the events and most were more than two generations after. The empty tomb appears to be a myth. The claim of the Bible is that it was a Roman crucifixion. If that was the case there would not have been a tomb. Christians cannot even keep their stories straight.

 

[Sheldon]

Do you have specific examples? I do not know of the facts ever changing. Sometimes the interpretation of data changes, but give us a specific fact that has changed.

Check mate, or my name isn't Huckleberry Finn...

 

[Subduction Zone]

I recommend getting a bread maker as a start, it'll also have a dough setting so you can make rolls and pizza bases. They have gone down a treat with friends and family. I cook my own Indian food as well, but occasionally get a takeaway since we are spoilt for choice here. Beyond chicken fried rice, I've not really dabbled much in Chinese cooking, but I have perfected my recipe...

Home made chicken fried rice is better than restaurant usually. I follow one rule alone that tends to make mine better than theirs. No frozen vegetables. There is no excuse for them. There are more than enough fresh vegetables available. I have picked up a tip or two from Uncle Rodger, the one main one is when I make my rice. I used to always measure the rice, but instead I "use my feelings" and when it comes to how much water after the rice has been thoroughly washed i have found that the first knuckle trick really works. He would not approve of my not using a rice cooker.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Check mate, or my name isn't Huckleberry Finn...

I am constantly amazed at how fundamentalists will accuse scientists of "following dogma" and then complaining when scientific theories are changed and improved as more evidence comes in. It only demonstrates massive dogma on their part. They want all of the right answers without doing any work. That all but guarantees wrong answers every time.

 

[ElishaElijah]

What "eyewitness accounts"? The Gospels were not written by eyewitnesses and all of them were over a generation after the events and most were more than two generations after. The empty tomb appears to be a myth. The claim of the Bible is that it was a Roman crucifixion. If that was the case there would not have been a tomb. Christians cannot even keep their stories straight.

You’d have to read The Gospels, Acts and letters from the Apostles who were alive at the time.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That's a no true Scotsman fallacy, and you might want to look up the word superstition in a dictionary, as I don't think it means what you think it means.


Argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy, no one has proven invisible unicorns don't exist, this doesn't lend credence to them being real. Not one shred of objective evidence exists for this superstitious claim.



There is no such evidence, only anecdotal hearsay, from mostly unknown authors, long after the events they allege to have happened, and of course an empty tomb is not evidence for anything, it is by definition an appeal to mystery.



There are no eyewitness accounts? What on earth are you talking about, not one word was written about Jesus until decades after he is alleged to have died, and the authors Mathew Mark Luke and John are fictional names assigned centuries later. Did you not know this?



Evidences nothing, since other religions with different deities make identical claims, and plenty of people change their lives without any superstitious religious beliefs at all.



A claim you would need to demonstrate some objective evidence for, unevidenced or anecdotal narratives are pretty meaningless. No more compelling than alleged sightings of mermaids.

You would have to go to a deliverance service at a Church meeting to observe for yourself, or experience that yourself.
Also, where are you getting your information about the Apostles, do you know what hearsay is? Is it hearsay if I give personal testimony of something I saw and witnessed?

 

[Subduction Zone]

There's no such thing as scientific facts on only working theories.

Incorrect. There are scientific facts too. Evolution is a scientific fact. Gravity is a scientific fact. Scientific theories explain scientific facts.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You’d have to read The Gospels, Acts and letters from the Apostles who were alive at the time.

There aren't any. Did you dig some up somewhere? You could become famous!

 

[Subduction Zone]

What were facts of science thirty years ago aren't now. You claim we are moving forward but you can't know that what we think we know now is anymore accurate than in the past. The so called facts will change again.

This is your claim, not ours. Please support it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You would have to go to a deliverance service at a Church meeting to observe for yourself, or experience that yourself.
Also, where are you getting your information about the Apostles, do you know what hearsay is? Is it hearsay if I give personal testimony of something I saw and witnessed?

How would that help your claim? You could be an eyewitness to a person acting as if they were possessed and then cured, but that would be very weak evidence for it.

None of the Gospels are that sort of "evidence". And if you are talking about Paul he had "visions" aka hallucinations.

 

[Sheldon]

You’d have to read The Gospels, Acts and letters from the Apostles who were alive at the time.

The gospel authors names Mathew Mark Luke and John, are fictional, they were made up and assigned at the Council of Nicaea over 3 centuries after the alleged events. These are not eyewitness accounts, they are second and third hand hearsay at best, Seriously did you not know this?

 

[Sheldon]

You would have to go to a deliverance service at a Church meeting to observe for yourself, or experience that yourself.

I can go to a magic show, that doesn't mean magic is real. You made a claim you can offer no objective evidence for, just this kind of unevidenced anecdotal claim.

Also, where are you getting your information about the Apostles,

If you mean the gospels of Mathew Mark Luke and John being fictional names, assigned over three centuries after the alleged events, at the first council of Nicaea, it's a well established fact, I am stunned someone claiming to be a Christian can not know this?

do you know what hearsay is?

hearsay
noun

1. information received from other people which cannot be substantiated; rumour.