There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[sojourner]

I’ve been reading through a couple of threads, and I see that it is said that there is no evidence for a god, it’s an unfalsifiable idea. We all agree on this? If you don’t, care to explain the evidence there is for god?
I’m in agreement. I used to believe my personal experiences to be subjective evidence for god, but I know now that’s not the case. I am not a theist anymore because I recognize I was a Christian thanks almost completely to my environment. That’s why I believed. I was brought up in it. Wasn’t because of any proof or anything,
So, theists, why do you believe? Is it mainly because of your environment and geographical location? There is no proof for god (right?), so what logically keeps you believing? Or is logic not supposed to be a factor when it comes to faith? Is it too jarring, the idea of leaving the comfort that religion and belief in a god brings?
I am curious about personal evaluations on why you believe. It can’t be because of logic, as there is no proof of god, right?

Depends on the particular definition of “God.”

 

[ElishaElijah]

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter who wrote them if it wasn't God.

God speaks by the Holy Spirit through believers that’s why it doesn’t matter who wrote the Gospel stories. When they are examined you can tell who probably wrote them and that’s the names that were put with them. God is the author of the Scriptures.
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭NIV‬‬
“For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain. We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:16-21‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[Sheldon]

It’s a debate forum yes, so why do you insist on misrepresenting people with your comments like saying you didn’t know such and such etc.,

I don't, that's simply untrue.

it’s a common theme with most of the skeptics and atheists,

Nope, you're simply projecting I think. Or else your poor grasp of language is a barrier to understand the obvious inferences some people draw from your apologetics.

You see contradictions to the Bible and you listed them yet they aren’t contradictions at all.

Don't be absurd.

Go ahead and pick one like the last one, does God tempt or test what was James talking about compared to Abraham? God doesn’t tempt people so they will do evil things, that’s Satan. God tests people for their own benefit, like He did Abraham. Don’t you see the difference?

Of course it is a contradiction, I mean the text I quoted verbatim, not the subjective misrepresentation of a straw man you have offered.
“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1

You haven't even read it properly, it says "god cannot be tempted by evil" it then says "nor does he tempteth any man" there is no mention of evil in that second part, so a poor rationalisation. We notice you have ignored the rest, probably just as well, as more hand waving will no doubt result. However here they are, and they are from a comprehensive list of biblical contradictions.

“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20

“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5

“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25

“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39

“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26

“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19

“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4

“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10

 

[Sheldon]

You already posted this. There are zero historians. Of course theologians believe their religion. They don't study the history and scrutinize th eevidence, they ASSUME THE RELIGION IS TRUE.

While accusing atheists of bias and of misrepresenting the facts, you have to see the irony. How many people have now explained carefully to @ElishaElijah that list is of conservative apologists offering their subjective belief, and not the consensus of historians. I even posted some of the strict methods and criteria of validation historians use to substantiate historical claims and facts, just highlight the difference, and of course he ignored it with hand waving and rhetoric. While still repeating his claim with the link as if repetition will make his claim any less false.

 

[Sheldon]

it doesn’t matter who wrote the Gospel stories. When they are examined you can tell who probably wrote them and that’s the names that were put with them.

That is flat out untrue, the names assigned are fictional, as the gospels are and have always been of anonymous origin, the names were assigned centuries later to make it appear as if they had been authored by eyewitnesses like the disciples. It astound me you can make such a blatantly incorrect claim, then accuse others of misrepresenting the facts.

 

[SkepticThinker]

God speaks by the Holy Spirit through believers that’s why it doesn’t matter who wrote the Gospel stories. When they are examined you can tell who probably wrote them and that’s the names that were put with them. God is the author of the Scriptures.
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭NIV‬‬
“For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain. We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:16-21‬ ‭NIV‬‬

How do you know God is the author of the Scriptures?
Bible quotes don't prove anything. We know humans write stuff. Still no evidence of any gods writing anything though.

 

[ElishaElijah]

How do you know God is the author of the Scriptures?
Bible quotes don't prove anything. We know humans write stuff. Still no evidence of any gods writing anything though.

The Scriptures being fulfilled are the evidence. Even the way the world is right now concerning Israel, how people think and act, even the increased earthquakes for example.
Humanity and the world could’ve gone totally different like some Utopia but it hasn’t. It’s going just like Scripture said “And it’s such an old book”.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That is flat out untrue, the names assigned are fictional, as the gospels are and have always been of anonymous origin, the names were assigned centuries later to make it appear as if they had been authored by eyewitnesses like the disciples. It astound me you can make such a blatantly incorrect claim, then accuse others of misrepresenting the facts.

That’s your opinion and you’re free to think that way. Problem is God has worked like this concerning the Scriptures from the beginning except the 10 Commandments He wrote with His own finger on the stone tablets.
“At that time the Lord said to me, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones and come up to me on the mountain. Also make a wooden ark. I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke. Then you are to put them in the ark.” So I made the ark out of acacia wood and chiseled out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I went up on the mountain with the two tablets in my hands. The Lord wrote on these tablets what he had written before, the Ten Commandments he had proclaimed to you on the mountain, out of the fire, on the day of the assembly. And the Lord gave them to me. Then I came back down the mountain and put the tablets in the ark I had made, as the Lord commanded me, and they are there now.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭10:1-5‬ ‭NIV‬‬
As far as being true, yes God is the author of Scripture and Jesus Christ is the Word of God made flesh.
John 1.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The Scriptures being fulfilled are the evidence. Even the way the world is right now concerning Israel, how people think and act, even the increased earthquakes for example.
Humanity and the world could’ve gone totally different like some Utopia but it hasn’t. It’s going just like Scripture said “And it’s such an old book”.

So the evidence that God wrote the Scriptures is the Scriptures.
Congratulations, you've got a circular argument!

Increased earthquakes and "the way the world is right now" as evidence of Scripture? Please.

Let's say the Scriptures have been fulfilled, as you claim. Let's take that as a fact, just for the sake of argument. How does that demonstrate that the god you believe in wrote the Bible?

 

[SkepticThinker]

That’s your opinion and you’re free to think that way. Problem is God has worked like this concerning the Scriptures from the beginning except the 10 Commandments He wrote with His own finger on the stone tablets.
“At that time the Lord said to me, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones and come up to me on the mountain. Also make a wooden ark. I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke. Then you are to put them in the ark.” So I made the ark out of acacia wood and chiseled out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I went up on the mountain with the two tablets in my hands. The Lord wrote on these tablets what he had written before, the Ten Commandments he had proclaimed to you on the mountain, out of the fire, on the day of the assembly. And the Lord gave them to me. Then I came back down the mountain and put the tablets in the ark I had made, as the Lord commanded me, and they are there now.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭10:1-5‬ ‭NIV‬‬
As far as being true, yes God is the author of Scripture and Jesus Christ is the Word of God made flesh.
John 1.

Everything that poster said is factual. You have Bible goggles on.

 

[sojourner]

Bible definitively proof of divine authorship?

Circular reasoning. The Bible cannot be its own authority.

Hmm, idk about that. I’m sure the atheists on this site are good folk, just like I give the benefit of the doubt that you are.

I know plenty people who claim to be Christian, yet are complete, evil jerks.

 

[Sheldon]

The Scriptures being fulfilled are the evidence.

I am dubious any accurate and totally unambiguous claims have come unequivocally true, but even were this the case how does this objectively evidence any deity? We know other religions make the same claims as well, and people predict the lottery against massive odds every day of the week, nothing supernatural is needed to explain this, so no, this is not evidence for any deity. It's yet another appeal to mystery, at best, or it's an unsubstantiated set of claims.

Even the way the world is right now concerning Israel, how people think and act, even the increased earthquakes for example.

None of that evidences any deity?

Humanity and the world could’ve gone totally different like some Utopia but it hasn’t.

I don't believe you, please demonstrate some objective evidence to support your claim that "the world could’ve gone totally different like some Utopia"? However even were this true, it doesn't represent evidence for any deity, you are simply leaping to unevidenced assumptions.

It’s going just like Scripture said “And it’s such an old book”.

A rather meaningless sweeping claim, but again even were this true, and again i am pretty dubious, it is not evidence for any deity. Many aspects of Orwell's 1984 have come true, this doesn't make Orwell a prophet of remotely require anything supernatural to ex[lain it. Humans make predictions, sometimes vague predictions that are bound to occur in some sense, and thus meaningless, and on other occasions might come true in a way we cannot explain, as we perceive this unlikely, but logically we can make no assertions based on not having a proper explanation, this is an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy by definition.

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
That is flat out untrue, the names assigned are fictional, as the gospels are and have always been of anonymous origin, the names were assigned centuries later to make it appear as if they had been authored by eyewitnesses like the disciples. It astound me you can make such a blatantly incorrect claim, then accuse others of misrepresenting the facts.

That’s your opinion

Rubbish, it is objective fact that the gospels never had any authors named attached to them, and that the names were made up appearing for the first time in the second century, and were assigned to the gospels by the first council of Nicaea, in an attempt to reflect early Christian belief they were the work of eyewitness disciples. You're the one expressing a subjective opinion, not me, and your opinion is at odds with known facts.

As far as being true, yes God is the author of Scripture and Jesus Christ is the Word of God made flesh.

Oh dear, well there you go, this is just your subjective opinion that you cannot support with any objective evidence. Not for the first time I am forced to acknowledge that you don't seem to understand the difference between an entirely subjective belief, and an objectively evidenced fact.

 

[Sheldon]

Everything that poster said is factual. You have Bible goggles on.

He will soon be telling us again, that only he understands the bible, but he undoes such hubris when his posts demonstrate unequivocally his ignorance of it's origins in this way.

This is not about religious beliefs, it is about him denying known facts, like the fact that the earliest known copies of the gospels, never had any names attached, their authorship was, and remains unknown. This is objective fact, and not even remotely my opinion. As is the fact the names Mathew Mark Luke and John did not appear until over 2 centuries later, and were assigned arbitrarily in 325 by early church leaders at the first council of Nicaea, to reflect their "subjective belief" those texts were eyewitness accounts written by disciples. There is no historical or objective evidence to support this however, the names assigned the gospels are fictitious. This is not to say people never existed with those names, which astonishingly is what he accused me of claiming the last time I pointed out these facts.

 

[ElishaElijah]

He will soon be telling us again, that only he understands the bible, but he undoes such hubris when his posts demonstrate unequivocally his ignorance of it's origins in this way.

I didn’t say I was the only one who understands Scripture. Born again believers do because they have the Holy Spirit as their teacher.
You and other atheists and skeptics haven’t proven or shown you understand the Scriptures. For example do you know the difference between the Old Covenant of the Law and the New Covenant that Jesus instituted at the Passover?
Doesn’t seem like it because you keep getting mixed up and see it as a contradiction in the Bible.
God is progressive like that

 

[Subduction Zone]

I didn’t say I was the only one who understands Scripture. Born again believers do because they have the Holy Spirit as their teacher.
You and other atheists and skeptics haven’t proven or shown you understand the Scriptures. For example do you know the difference between the Old Covenant of the Law and the New Covenant that Jesus instituted at the Passover?

Please, that "Holy Spirit" claim simply fails. There are to many disparate interpretations of the Bible by even the "born again" for that to be the case.

And actually we can "prove" that we do understand the Bible better. We can do interpret it from multiple perspectives, since we do not have a false need for it to be true. We can interpret it from what the perspective of the writers. We can interpret it from the perspective of the fundamentalists. We can interpret it from the perspective of moderate Christians where the Bible does not end up refuting itself. You can only interpret it from your own very narrow and very flawed perspective.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Please, that "Holy Spirit" claim simply fails. There are to many disparate interpretations of the Bible by even the "born again" for that to be the case.

And actually we can "prove" that we do understand the Bible better. We can do interpret it from multiple perspectives, since we do not have a false need for it to be true. We can interpret it from what the perspective of the writers. We can interpret it from the perspective of the fundamentalists. We can interpret it from the perspective of moderate Christians where the Bible does not end up refuting itself. You can only interpret it from your own very narrow and very flawed perspective.

Well you haven’t done it brother… So at this point it’s all talk.
You don’t even know the Holy Spirit

 

[SkepticThinker]

I didn’t say I was the only one who understands Scripture. Born again believers do because they have the Holy Spirit as their teacher.
You and other atheists and skeptics haven’t proven or shown you understand the Scriptures. For example do you know the difference between the Old Covenant of the Law and the New Covenant that Jesus instituted at the Passover?
Doesn’t seem like it because you keep getting mixed up and see it as a contradiction in the Bible.
God is progressive like that

Oh please.
You Christians can't even decide amongst yourselves which are the correct interpretations, which is the entire point. I know you want to avoid this point at all costs, but I'm not going to let you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well you haven’t done it brother… So at this point it’s all talk.
You don’t even know the Holy Spirit

You don't know the Holy Spirit either. So that puts us on an equal playing field in that sense.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Oh please.
You Christians can't even decide amongst yourselves which are the correct interpretations, which is the entire point. I know you want to avoid this point at all costs, but I'm not going to let you.

Don’t because correct interpretation about what?
That salvation is found in Jesus Christ and Him alone, that no one comes to the Father except through Him?
That you must be born again?
That’s the main test so let’s start there, which Christians disagree with that?