Without God(s), what is the point?!

[Wildswanderer]

Yes. So god and Hitler are essentially the same.

No, that moronic. God is perfectly Holy. Being made in God's image doesn't equal being the same as God. We have almost none of God's attributes, but we do have a spirit, so we are like God in that way.

 

[Wildswanderer]

What do you mean by "everything was accomplished"?

Christ is the culmination of the law” (Romans 10:4). The predictions of the Prophets concerning the Messiah were realized in Jesus; the holy standard of the Law was perfectly upheld by Christ, the strict requirements personally obeyed, and the ceremonial observances finally and fully satisfied.

The ceremonies, sacrifices, and other elements of the Old Covenant were “only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves” (Hebrews 10:1)

Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified” (Galatians 2:16).

 

[muhammad_isa]

I didn't say you said that. You implied that without god, you would behave immorally, implying that that would be your natural behaviour without god's regulating influence.

Sorry .. it must be your guilty conscience.

I never implied any such thing.
Just like you interpret scripture in your own way, you similarly judge my words.
Perhaps it was the "get away with" that confused you.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Islam is a religion of peace and violence, of tolerance and intolerance, of equality and discrimination, depending on the circumstances.

So what if it is? [ That is not to say I entirely agree with you ]
There would be no Muslims if God hadn't made it our duty to defend ourselves.
There could be, I suppose, if you think that God should "wave His wand" and cause people to fall down dead.
It's part of the test .. will we lay our life on the line for a good cause, or will we choose wealth and security?

I have signed up to a couple of Islamic "debate" forums and been swiftly banned. Dissension and criticism is not tolerated.

Of course you have. Those forums are for debate between Muslims, and not for atheists.

 

[KWED]

No, that moronic.

Was that meant to make sense?

God is perfectly Holy.

And Hitler was made in god's image, which means that Hitler was perfectly holy.

Being made in God's image doesn't equal being the same as God.

Kinda does.

We have almost none of God's attributes,

So we aren't made in god's image.

but we do have a spirit, so we are like God in that way.

So god has a spirit. So he is like humans.

 

[KWED]

Christ is the culmination of the law”

What do you mean by "Christ is the culmination of the law"?

(Romans 10:4). The predictions of the Prophets concerning the Messiah were realized in Jesus; [/quote] What were those predictions, specifically, and how were they "realised"?

the holy standard of the Law was perfectly upheld by Christ,

Again, what does that actually mean. You seem to be talking in platitudes and expecting me to just accept them.

the strict requirements personally obeyed, and the ceremonial observances finally and fully satisfied.

Explain what that means, in practical terms.

The ceremonies, sacrifices, and other elements of the Old Covenant were “only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves”

Same.

Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified” (Galatians 2:16).

Seriously? Can you not explain anything in your own words? You really don't understand any of this, do you?

 

[KWED]

Sorry .. it must be your guilty conscience.

I never implied any such thing.
Just like you interpret scripture in your own way, you similarly judge my words.
Perhaps it was the "get away with" that confused you.

Ok.
So you admit that without god, people can live good and moral lives.

 

[KWED]

So what if it is? [ That is not to say I entirely agree with you ]
There would be no Muslims if God hadn't made it our duty to defend ourselves.
There could be, I suppose, if you think that God should "wave His wand" and cause people to fall down dead.
It's part of the test .. will we lay our life on the line for a good cause, or will we choose wealth and security?

So you accept that Islam is a religion of peace and violence, of tolerance and intolerance, of equality and discrimination, depending on the circumstances.

Of course you have. Those forums are for debate between Muslims, and not for atheists.

No. They advertised themselves as a place where people of different belief could come and discuss Islam.
It turned out that it only applied if you agreed with Islam.
At least you are better than them in that respect.

 

[muhammad_isa]

So you admit that without god, people can live good and moral lives.

No.
It is not possible for anybody to even exist if there is "no god"

..but if you mean "can an atheist live a moral life?", it depends who it is, obviously.

 

[ppp]

No.
It is not possible for anybody to even exist if there is "no god"

..but if you mean "can an atheist live a moral life?", it depends who it is, obviously.

Can a Muslim live an immoral life?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Can a Muslim live an immoral life?

Obviously .. I don't know why you even need to ask.

Almighty God says in the Qur'an, those that believe and do good works, theirs will be a reward unfailing.
..but those who turn away..

There are "atheists" and there are atheists.
Unless @KWED changes, I doubt very much whether a "reward" awaits them.
..and not because of petty reasons. i.e. out of spite bla bla

@KWED argues against major revelation .. I'm sure that you can work it out for yourself.
It means that he does not agree with the morality of religious people, such as the King of UK

 

[ppp]

Obviously .. I don't know why you even need to ask.

Plenty of Muslims indulge the No True Scotsman fallacy. It's hardly unique to Christians. I do not know if you do unless I ask.

There are "atheists" and there are atheists.

I don't know what criteria you are using to make the distinction.

Unless @KWED changes, I doubt very much whether a "reward" awaits them.
..and not because of petty reasons. i.e. out of spite bla bla

If by "reward" you mean something that happens to him after he dies...I very much doubt that there is a reward awaiting him either.

@KWED argues against major revelation .. I'm sure that you can work it out for yourself.
It means that he does not agree with the morality of religious people, such as the King of UK

That language seems sloppy. A belief about existence or lack of major revelation is not equivalent to one's morality.

 

[muhammad_isa]

That language seems sloppy. A belief about existence or lack of major revelation is not equivalent to one's morality.

I'm sure that you don't agree with my moral values.

..yet I agree with Prince Charles' ..
Secular values include those which seem good at the time.
Core Christian/Muslim values do not change.

 

[ppp]

I'm sure that you don't agree with my moral values.

Are you speaking literally, or is that some sloppy language there? I probably disagree with the standard to which you attribute your morality. But I suspect that our respective sets of actual values intersect.

..yet I agree with Prince Charles' ..

I have heard random say the same all my life. Is citing Charles supposed to be more significant than that?

Secular values include those which seem good at the time.

As opposed those that seem bad at the time?

Core Christian/Muslim values do not change.

Only if you constantly redefine what 'core' values are. Hell, y'all can't even agree between your religions nor internally to either religion.

BTW, not changing is a red flag. Do not recommend.

 

[muhammad_isa]

BTW, not changing is a red flag. Do not recommend.

There you go .. that is a major difference between a sincere believer and a disbeliever.

 

[ppp]

There you go .. that is a major difference between a sincere believer and a disbeliever.

And there you go. Right down the No True Scotsman hole.

 

[Sheldon]

Why would you only care how you treat others, if a deity you imagine to be real is watching?

I don't.
I don't claim to be perfect. That is why I'm concerned.

You, apparently don't have to be concerned.
You are probably perfect, and will not die.

You claimed you wished there no deity so you might get away with treating people badly, here.

Sometimes I wish it were true.
But alas, I don't think that I can get away with treating others badly,

 

[muhammad_isa]

You claimed you wished there no deity so you might get away with treating people badly, here.

No I didn't.

"Sometimes I wish it were true"
i.e. that we die and know no more

"But alas, I don't think that I can get away with treating others badly,"
i.e. I will likely suffer for my sins

We are all sinners, regardless of religious persuasion.

Of course, I know why atheists want to discuss this subject.
..because scriptures suggest that disbelievers will suffer in a life hereafter.
This is TRUE. Yet NOBODY is safe from suffering in a life hereafter, despite many people claiming so.

 

[Sheldon]

You claimed you wished there no deity so you might get away with treating people badly, here.

No I didn't.

Yes you did, but I can see the spin already, and know from past experience it's pointless discussing what you actually said. Have a good evening.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..it's pointless discussing what you actually said..

It is pointless !
I know what I intended by my remark, while you only guess.