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Mother mary without sin?
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
stvdv
Veteran Member
I never think in terms of "sin", because God does not judge I read, and God told us to not judge
If the question was "did mother Mary act always Dharmic", I would be surprised. It's possible of course, but not many humans were born fully enlightened. Even Jesus went through different stages of realization (according to Sai Baba, and some of His the quotes found in the Bible), so I guess mother Mary too
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Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Our actions do have consequences . God created the law of karma. Divine justice is part of God's love. If God was not just, then God is not love. To be loving you have to be just.
But hell and reincarnation is only temporary, because of God's love for us. In the end all is in heaven
I agree with you. Mother mary followed dharmic, and most likely was fully enlightened
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PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
In a theological sense, I'm not sure.
However, that being said, there was probably still something special about her for God to choose her.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Yes mother mary is very special
If there was a mechanism to make this possible, I would perhaps agree. But reincarnation reality per Quran is that a soul that broke the promise the first time, will break it now that it has been corrupted by evil, if comes back. The more reincarnations will not give a chance out of that. And if it sees the proof of day of judgment type, and remembers it, then it can't love in a meaningful way. Since love is required to reform and repent sincerely, and witnessing that with vision of hate will close that door, it's impossible for God to really save all souls.
Instead, God out of his wisdom, created life with little time, trials, stress, pressure, etc, so that we prove to God ourselves quickly. God is also between a rock and a hard place in that if he gives the human favors in terms of wealth and ease to people, they turn away and harden their hearts. And if he tries them with tribulations, war, oppression, a lot think of people's oppression as God punishing them or measure God's favor towards them materialistically or vainly, and become ungrateful towards God. Both of them desire the world, just one has much of it and the other does not have much of it, but their goal and direction is the same.
God also could've forced the proofs and given his chosen invulnerability but chose to try us this way. In order to give us meaningful goodness.
The mechanism that people of hell will be reformed into heaven, there is no such thing possible. Nor does a soul that hated God all of sudden is able to love of God when proof is shown. And God's beauty and vision of love go together. It's easy to see God existing, what's harder is to see his beauty as beautiful, his honor as honorable, and his glory as glorious. That takes vision of love, humility, non-resistance, acceptance, and submission and being true to oneself.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
You wrote *The mechanism that people of hell will be reformed into heaven, there is no such thing possible. Nor does a soul that hated God all of sudden is able to love of God when proof is shown*.
Why do you believe that? God is all-powerful. offcourse God is able to save all souls in the end
I don't believe in sin, so yes.
It's because of two facts:
(1) Love and free-will go together
(2) Breaking promise the first time will result in breaking the promise no matter how many chances, if death couldn't make a soul prepare to please God the first time, it won't be able to come back and fulfill no matter how many chances.
God can't create another equal to himself despite being all-powerful.
God can only do what is logical possible. He can't make square circles.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Free will is a good argument against the belief that in the end God will save all. But do you really think that some people will choose eternal separation from God?
God if fully manifest, no one can deny and no would disbelieve. God is both hidden and manifest. When he will be fully manifest on day of judgment, it's forced on the souls that avoided God's proximity and path to him in this world, and if souls know God is true, they wish to submit, avoid hell and be given good will. However it's impossible, because now they can't love God and if made to forget to some degree the encounter, they would break promise again. But without return to this world, it's impossible at this point to change out of love.
They will see God to exist, they will witness the Prophets are true.
They will be veiled from his beauty and further from the path of love towards God.
There is no mechanism possible at this point to save them. Death is a timer, so we get things right, and don't fall forever.
Hell physical punishments are promised to make us avoid even though the light burning darkness type punishment which doubles, and doubles, is very much more painful. That (light burning the darkness) can't be undone once witnessed, unless the soul is made to forget, but it will break the promise again in this case.
Fearing God in this world, is an act of love towards who God is, because of his judgment, justice, and that he is hidden.
It takes courage to fear God and accept we are worthy of his wrath. It takes humility to seek his forgiveness and try to reform with his help.
If we won't get it right this time around, there is no getting it right after.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
You wrote *Breaking promise the first time will result in breaking the promise no matter how many chances* Why do you believe that?
It is logical that the soul get many chances , many lives to learn our lessons
The soul becomes more corrupt, after it dies astray. Coming back to this world in a corrupt state, would mean, it would become further corrupt.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
It make more sense that many lives can help a soul to be kinder and better. That a soul learn its lessons after many lifetimes.
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InChrist
Free4ever
No, I
And Mary said:
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
Luke 1:46-47
No, I don’t think Mary was without sin. She was a human being and impacted by the fallen human nature like anyone else. She would not have acknowledged God as her Savior if she was sinless.
And Mary said:
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
Luke 1:46-47
DNB
Christian
Of course not. If so, Christ's death would have been redundant for her. She gave birth to the Messiah in order to offer redemption to the world, but also for herself.
She cannot believe that her son was the messiah, if she didn't need one. She was not immaculately conceived, nor was she assumed into heaven, but she was special solely for the fact that she believed the angel, Gabriel, that she will conceive a child without being impregnated by a man - requiring an extraordinary amount of faith.
Yes. Christian doctrine has always taught Mary as the Mother of God was conceived and lived without sin.
The merits of Christ's death and resurrection were applied to her preemptively. God insured Mary would be free from all trace of sin because anything less would have been an insult to divine majesty of Christ.
The merits of Christ's death and resurrection were applied to her preemptively. God insured Mary would be free from all trace of sin because anything less would have been an insult to divine majesty of Christ.
I'd argue that being All-powerful makes God able to save all souls at the beginning, not just at the end.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I have no idea. God says that the commandments are easy to keep. I'm sure there are those rare people who never mess up. For example, it says that Job was perfect.
I have a good joke for you.
The mob brings a woman caught in adultery before Jesus. Jesus says "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." A few seconds go by, and suddenly a rock speeds out of the crowd and hits the woman in the head. Jesus says, "Oh mother, I can't take you anywhere."