Mother mary without sin?

[Brian2]

If you were writing a history of Richard Nixon and it was widely understood that he could fly unaided, a feat beyond any other human, would you mention it in your history? Of course you would.

That's why the silence of Paul and the authors of Mark and John is so thunderous. That God personally made her pregnant and not any human is the one truly exceptional claim about Mary. If they had thought Jesus was born of a virgin they would have proclaimed it. And none of them did.

Nobody was writing a history of Mary. Your analogy is way off the mark.

 

[blü 2]

Nobody was writing a history of Mary. Your analogy is way off the mark.

The fact that the mother of the hero of the whole dang story was personally impregnated by God is not a datum you'd include in your account if you thought it was true?

Really? Seriously? You'd decide to remain silent about that credential?

I don't think you would.

 

[YoursTrue]

te do not believe that Mary was without sin, nor do I believe Jesus was either.

So do you believe Mary was a virgin when she was impregnated with Jesus? Certainly --many thought or think she was having sexual intercourse with someone when she got pregnant with Jesus. This is not saying she was sinless, but since you don't believe Jesus was without sin, how do you see Mary--as a virgin who was chosen by God, or do you think she committed fornication?

 

[YoursTrue]

In Mark it is not mentioned and in John it is not mentioned and nobody else in the NT mentions it asaik.
With your logic (well we'll call it logic for the discussion) that means that Mark and John and Paul anyone else who wrote the NT think that Mary was not a virgin.

I do wonder how some considering themselves as religious teachers here also view Mary -- since now it is said that Jesus was a sinner--do they believe Mary was a fornicator? or maybe had an episode with someone and gave birth to Jesus of whom it is now said by at least one person here that he, too, was a sinner.

 

[Brian2]

I do wonder how some considering themselves as religious teachers here also view Mary -- since now it is said that Jesus was a sinner--do they believe Mary was a fornicator? or maybe had an episode with someone and gave birth to Jesus of whom it is now said by at least one person here that he, too, was a sinner.

Yes, I don't know to whom your refer but Liberal Christians have some strange ideas imo. It is like they don't believe in the supernatural.

 

[Brian2]

The fact that the mother of the hero of the whole dang story was personally impregnated by God is not a datum you'd include in your account if you thought it was true?

Really? Seriously? You'd decide to remain silent about that credential?

I don't think you would.

That could be said for any miracle that appears in one gospel and not another.
And Paul and others wrote letters about theology and problems in various churches and not about the life of Jesus.
Mark seems to have gotten his information from various sermons and teachings of Peter.
John wrote about Jesus pre existence in heaven and the others did not include that like John did.
So Jesus was not born of a virgin and did not come from heaven if your reasoning is correct.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, I don't know to whom your refer but Liberal Christians have some strange ideas imo. It is like they don't believe in the supernatural.

Imagine someone calling himself Christian claiming that Jesus was a sinner. Now THAT is beyond logic, imho. But that's what makes the "world" go round. Since these particular ones get all upset when confronted and asked to explain -- I find it interesting they back off and leave it up to the imagination, however inconsistent their ideas are in reference to their claims as to association with a religion. My reaction is: oh well.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, I don't know to whom your refer but Liberal Christians have some strange ideas imo. It is like they don't believe in the supernatural.

These ones don't like to give details about their beliefs, they may like to go to church, feed the poor, but deny that Jesus was the perfect, sinless son of God in heaven and when he was on the earth, born to a virgin. they may even start arguing about the words used in the Bible as if that backs up their idea that Mary was not a virgin when conceiving the one come to be known as Jesus. (oh well...it is what it is and God is the judge of such ones, I am thankful for that...) All you have to do is ask those that claim Jesus was a sinner, ask if they believe Mary was a virgin when conceiving Jesus.
And get really upset when challenged.

 

[Brian2]

Imagine someone calling himself Christian claiming that Jesus was a sinner. Now THAT is beyond logic, imho. But that's what makes the "world" go round. Since these particular ones get all upset when confronted and asked to explain -- I find it interesting they back off and leave it up to the imagination, however inconsistent their ideas are in reference to their claims as to association with a religion. My reaction is: oh well.

I think that reaction is appropriate. We have to have a reaction like that and step back in so many threads unfortunately.
I have done that over the past few days and it is good to have a break from the pearl crushers on this forum even if in a way it does feel like I should be there wasting my time giving answers that will be ignored and misunderstood and trampled on, leading to more posts which go the same way.

 

[Brian2]

These ones don't like to give details about their beliefs, they may like to go to church, feed the poor, but deny that Jesus was the perfect, sinless son of God in heaven and when he was on the earth, born to a virgin. they may even start arguing about the words used in the Bible as if that backs up their idea that Mary was not a virgin when conceiving the one come to be known as Jesus. (oh well...it is what it is and God is the judge of such ones, I am thankful for that...) All you have to do is ask those that claim Jesus was a sinner, ask if they believe Mary was a virgin when conceiving Jesus.
And get really upset when challenged.

Considering the attacks on the Bible these days it is amazing that people still have faith I guess, and it is certainly a good thing if that faith leads to giving money to the poor.
I don't like to choose between love and the correct beliefs.
We know that love is greater than knowledge and faith and we can't really judge people. We leave that to God.

 

[metis]

So do you believe Mary was a virgin when she was impregnated with Jesus?

No.

 

[metis]

The basic essential of Christianity is summed up here per Jesus' own words:
Matt 22:
34i When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together,
35and one of them [a scholar of the law]* tested him by asking,
36“Teacher,* which commandment in the law is the greatest?”
37j He said to him,* “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39 The second is like it:* You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, I don't know to whom your refer but Liberal Christians have some strange ideas imo. It is like they don't believe in the supernatural.

Considering the attacks on the Bible these days it is amazing that people still have faith I guess, and it is certainly a good thing if that faith leads to giving money to the poor.
I don't like to choose between love and the correct beliefs.
We know that love is greater than knowledge and faith and we can't really judge people. We leave that to God.

Remember Jesus said the poor will always be among us. That is obviously until God's kingdom overturns all wickedness in this world and heals those who are blessed. He encouraged his followers to preach the good news of God's kingdom. This is not to say that feeding the poor is a bad thing.

 

[YoursTrue]

The basic essential of Christianity is summed up here per Jesus' own words:
Matt 22:
34i When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together,
35and one of them [a scholar of the law]* tested him by asking,
36“Teacher,* which commandment in the law is the greatest?”
37j He said to him,* “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39 The second is like it:* You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”

Which God? The mythical God that some think exists somehow in the Bible? A sinful Jesus? How about Mary? Was the Law Jesus spoke about in the scriptures you quote a myth made up by someone also mythical and Jesus as you claim being a sinner himself deluded by myths?

 

[YoursTrue]

No.

Thank you for your forthright answer.

 

[YoursTrue]

The basic essential of Christianity is summed up here per Jesus' own words:
Matt 22:
34i When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together,
35and one of them [a scholar of the law]* tested him by asking,
36“Teacher,* which commandment in the law is the greatest?”
37j He said to him,* “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39 The second is like it:* You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”

Speaking of this, did Jesus know which God he was speaking about when he cited the first commandment or did he kind of go along with mythical teachings do you think? He said YOUR God to the Pharisees, not another god. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. To love God is the greatest commandment he said. To love your neighbor as yourself is the second.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Speaking of this, did Jesus know which God he was speaking about when he cited the first commandment or did he kind of go along with mythical teachings do you think? He said YOUR God to the Pharisees, not another god. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. To love God is the greatest commandment he said. To love your neighbor as yourself is the second.

Jesus practiced second temple Judaism. He is simply quoting from the Torah. "Your" God refers to the God of Israel, since originally this was Moses talking to all of Israel.

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus practiced second temple Judaism. He is simply quoting from the Torah. "Your" God refers to the God of Israel, since originally this was Moses talking to all of Israel.

I agree Jesus was speaking of the God of Israel. He wasn't speaking of any other god. The nations had their gods, such as Zeus. That is correct, he wasn't saying that Zeus or Athena were the gods they should love above all.

 

[metis]

Which God? The mythical God that some think exists somehow in the Bible? A sinful Jesus? How about Mary? Was the Law Jesus spoke about in the scriptures you quote a myth made up by someone also mythical and Jesus as you claim being a sinner himself deluded by myths?

Speaking of this, did Jesus know which God he was speaking about when he cited the first commandment or did he kind of go along with mythical teachings do you think? He said YOUR God to the Pharisees, not another god. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. To love God is the greatest commandment he said. To love your neighbor as yourself is the second.

The above is why trying to have a serious discussion with you is fruitless, as the answer should easily have been obvious since I quoted from the Gospel.

 

[YoursTrue]

The above is why trying to have a serious discussion with you is fruitless, as the answer should easily have been obvious since I quoted from the Gospel.

Hardly if you really think about it. But let's also be honest -- from your answers it doesn't take much to discern that you don't believe the "gospels." You can quote from them but who knows what you really believe about them, if you believe they reflect the truth.
You think Jesus was a sinner. I doubt you believe his life was transferred from heavenly life with his Father to live on the earth. Was Mary a sinner? Hmm, it depends how far you go considering the word sinner. Was she a fornicator? A thief? A murderer?
Let's be honest again, and thank you for saying you believe Mary was NOT a virgin when she conceived. Therefore -- therefore -- you mujst believe but are not willing to say that she had sexual intercourse with a man in order to get pregnant with Jesus. I don't understand frankly why you just don't step up to the plate.