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Signs of Holy Spirit guidance in Christians?
- Thread starter PoetPhilosopher
- Start date
A vision doesn't require sight.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You expect me to believe something for which you admit the evidence says contrary?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Occam's razor.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Paul saw a bright light, and heard an actual voice. That's not a vision. That's a hallucination.
I think this is a semantics game. Paul's experience is usually considered a vision.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
But why wouldn't God's Spirit affect other people prior to Jesus? Maybe His Spirit was given to enhance those listening to Jesus and/or hearing/reading about him later?
IOW, I can't fathom why the Spirit would be only activated from Pentecost onward?
Just my unsure thoughts on the matter.
I'm sorry, Metis... obviously I didn't explain myself well. Indeed God's Spirit can and did affect people prior to Jesus.
Exodus 31:2 See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah: 3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, 4 To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
So God did indeed move on people!
And, of course, this is my understanding of which I always say, "God, enroll me in the "What I really meant 101" when I get to Heaven.
My understanding is that God moved on the soul of mankind (wisdom, intellect, capacity) but the spirit of man was still not ready to receive the fulness of the dunamis power of God. It would be like entering into the Holy of Holies without all the washing and sacrifices that were needed to be in His presence.
It would be like touching the Ark of the Covenant without blood - and man would not be able to withstand His presence.
But when Jesus resurrected and the blood was placed in the Heavenly altar, the receiving of Jesus as Lord cause us to be "born again", as Jesus said, recreated back into the fulness of the image and likeness of God and now had the capacity to be fully united with God's Spirit becoming one with Him.
There are scriptures for all of this... but that is the gist of my position baring the class of "What I really meant 101"
love lifted me - proverbs 3:12
Love is holy, it is what unites all things as One Spirit. a loving spirit is the holy spirit.
where love has joined two together, let no one put asunder
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is love, and my burden is light.
without love we are hopelessly lost....................................
The Naassene Psalm
The world's producing law was Primal Mind,
And next was First-born's outpoured Chaos; And third, the soul received its law of toil:
Encircl'd, therefore, with an acqueous form, With care o'erpowered it succumbs to death.
Now holding sway, it eyes the light, And now it weeps on misery flung; Now it mourns, now it thrills with joy; Now it wails, now it hears its doom; Now it hears its doom, now it dies, And now it leaves us, never to return.
It, hapless straying, treads the maze of ills.
But Jesus said, Father, behold, A strife of ills across the earth Wanders from thy breath (of wrath); But bitter Chaos (man) seeks to shun, And knows not how to pass it through.
On this account, O Father, send me; Bearing seals, I shall descend; Through ages whole I'll sweep, All mysteries I'll unravel, And forms of Gods I'll show; And secrets of the saintly path, Styled "Gnosis," I'll impart. - naassene psalm
understanding has appeared within the mystery and love could not overcome it
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the mind's eye
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
Paul saw a bright light, and heard an actual voice. That's not a vision. That's a hallucination.
Alas; didn't this derision of Paul with the Christianity people continued for centuries till Second Coming 1835-1908
exposed this fraud of Paul , please, right??
Regards
Paul saw a bright light, and heard an actual voice. That's not a vision. That's a hallucination.
If there was nobody else mentioned in the OT, who got blinded with seeing a vision, then certainly, didn't Paul fake the vision, to make a fool of the Christianity people, right??
Alas; didn't this derision of Paul with the Christianity people continued for centuries till Second Coming 1835-1908
exposed this fraud of Paul , please, right??
Regards
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IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Why do you jump to the conclusion that Paul faked his hallucination?
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Hallucinations are not observable as facts by independent witnesses.
And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought [him] into Damascus.
Acts 9:6-8
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
Paul saw a bright light, and heard an actual voice. That's not a vision. That's a hallucination.
paarsurrey said:
Has anybody seen a vision with which one got blind , please, right??
Regards
Paul saw a bright light, and heard an actual voice. That's not a vision. That's a hallucination.
paarsurrey said:
Has anybody seen a vision with which one got blind , please, right??
Paul must have faked the vision.
Regards
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
He misrepresented it. His account of events in Acts 26 contradicts his account from Acts 22.
Blindness relates to Paul's lie about his role:
To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Acts 26:18
The truth is more aligned with hearing:
I will incline mine ear to a parable: I will open my dark saying upon the harp.
Psalms 49:4
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
" He misrepresented it "
Does one mean Paul misrepresented, his account of events in Acts 26 contradicts his account from Acts 22?
Blindness relates to Paul's lie about his role.
Right?
If yes, then I agree with one, please, right?
Regards
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Yes, in Acts 26 Paul says that he was informed of his role while on the road to Damascus, but in Acts 22 he was told to go to Damascus for instructions.
Paul's actual role relates to the name:
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Acts 9:15-16
This in turn relates to Peter denying the name:
Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee.
But he denied before [them] all, saying, I know not what thou sayest.
Matthew 26:69-70
Muffled
Jesus in me
I do know that but there is no account of a vision in Paul's testimony.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe there is more evidence in the word than what one can see with one's eyes.