WHO IS GOD'S TRUE ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

[3rdAngel]

So the fact that there is a single covenant that excludes Ishmael's descendants doesn't mean that all covenants exclude them.

As posted earlier, God refused to make His covenant promise with Abraham through Ishmael and his lineage (Islam). Islam is a false teaching.

 

[Ebionite]

As posted earlier, God refused to make His covenant promise with Abraham through Ishmael and his lineage (Islam). Islam is a false teaching.

Sure, ignore the point so that you can continue to peddle your religious prejudice.

 

[Bthoth]

As posted earlier, God refused to make His covenant promise with Abraham through Ishmael and his lineage (Islam). Islam is a false teaching.

Such as adultry with servant?

Which is first born of abram? How?

Who can document lineage?

 

[3rdAngel]

Such as adultry with servant?

Which is first born of abram? How?

Who can document lineage?

You do not know these things?
Do you read the bible?

 

[Bthoth]

You do not know these things?
Do you read the bible?

Bthoth said:
Such as adultery with servant?


Gen 16:


3 And Sarai, Abram's wife, taketh Hagar the Egyptian, her handmaid, at the end of the tenth year of Abram's dwelling in the land of Canaan, and giveth her to Abram her husband, to him for a wife,


That's adultery!


Did you forget? Perhaps?

 

[3rdAngel]

Bthoth said:
Such as adultery with servant?


Gen 16:


3 And Sarai, Abram's wife, taketh Hagar the Egyptian, her handmaid, at the end of the tenth year of Abram's dwelling in the land of Canaan, and giveth her to Abram her husband, to him for a wife,


That's adultery!


Did you forget? Perhaps?

No not at all... You raise a valid point. The situation with Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar does share some similarities with the conventional definition of adultery, as it involves a married person engaging in a sexual relationship with someone other than their spouse. However, the distinction often lies in the specific circumstances and cultural context.

In the case of Abraham and Sarah, the arrangement with Hagar was entered into with Sarah's consent, and it was seen as a means to fulfill the promise of descendants. This context is crucial in understanding the narrative. Adultery, as traditionally defined, typically involves secrecy, betrayal, and a breach of the marital covenant without the knowledge or agreement of the spouse. Abraham and Sarah tried to fulfill Gods promise to them for a son through the bond servant Hagar. This was not Gods will.

However, this also proves what was being posted earlier, and the reason why God rejected Ishmael as Gods chosen to who He would fulfill His covenant promise to even though he was the firsborn. God promised Abraham and Sarah their own son and it was this son that God would fulfill His covenant promise and why God rejected Hagar and Ishmael and Islam to which Muslims claim lineage.

Take Care

 

[IndigoChild5559]

In the case of Abraham and Sarah, the arrangement with Hagar was entered into with Sarah's consent

Since when does Sarah get to give consent for someone else?

 

[justaguy313]

The Lookalike of Jesus is the Mahdi and his name is Israel.

 

[Bthoth]

No not at all... You raise a valid point. The situation with Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar does share some similarities with the conventional definition of adultery, as it involves a married person engaging in a sexual relationship with someone other than their spouse. However, the distinction often lies in the specific circumstances and cultural context.

Still adultery of commandments. But they were not enforced before the story of abraham was written. Just as the levant was an egyptian vassal when an exodus was claimed to happen in torah.

Where it is really funny is circumcision was an egyptian cultural requirement almost 2000 yrs before moses wrote torah. That would mean the god that made a covenant with abram could have been a pharaoh and perhaps how a promise was made to give him the land. Because it was egyptian lands back 1350 BCE.

In the case of Abraham and Sarah, the arrangement with Hagar was entered into with Sarah's consent, and it was seen as a means to fulfill the promise of descendants.

Sure the story claims fulfillment for circumcision convenant, which was already in place in egypt.

This context is crucial in understanding the narrative.

Sure, so the errors can be fixed.

Adultery, as traditionally defined, typically involves secrecy, betrayal, and a breach of the marital covenant without the knowledge or agreement of the spouse.

Nice..... So people get to decide what is adultery when it comes to biblical story interpretations.

Abraham and Sarah tried to fulfill Gods promise to them for a son through the bond servant Hagar. This was not Gods will.

i see what you mean as then islam would be more important than judaism/christianity.

However, this also proves what was being posted earlier, and the reason why God rejected Ishmael as Gods chosen to who He would fulfill His covenant promise to even though he was the firsborn.

Now you know the reason by god? Adultery is adultery and even with all of the religious opinion there is not a soul alive that has documentation for their lineage to isaac or ishamael, let alone moses or david.

God promised Abraham and Sarah their own son and it was this son that God would fulfill His covenant promise and why God rejected Hagar and Ishmael and Islam to which Muslims claim lineage.

Take Care

Please do not use the torah nor bible as the last word. It's funny to even suggest it.

 

[3rdAngel]

Still adultery of commandments. But they were not enforced before the story of abraham was written. Just as the levant was an egyptian vassal when an exodus was claimed to happen in torah.

Where it is really funny is circumcision was an egyptian cultural requirement almost 2000 yrs before moses wrote torah. That would mean the god that made a covenant with abram could have been a pharaoh and perhaps how a promise was made to give him the land. Because it was egyptian lands back 1350 BCE.

Sure the story claims fulfillment for circumcision convenant, which was already in place in egypt.

Sure, so the errors can be fixed.

Nice..... So people get to decide what is adultery when it comes to biblical story interpretations.

i see what you mean as then islam would be more important than judaism/christianity.

Now you know the reason by god? Adultery is adultery and even with all of the religious opinion there is not a soul alive that has documentation for their lineage to isaac or ishamael, let alone moses or david.

Please do not use the torah nor bible as the last word. It's funny to even suggest it.

Genesis 26:5 disagrees with those claims.

 

[3rdAngel]

Since when does Sarah get to give consent for someone else?

She doesn't and I never said that makes it right. Both Abraham and Sarah were trying to fulfill Gods promise through their flesh and not by faith in the promise of Gods Word. This is why God rejected Ishmael for Isaac the promised child.

 

[Bthoth]

Genesis 26:5 disagrees with those claims.

5 because that Abraham hath hearkened to My voice, and keepeth My charge, My commands, My statutes, and My laws.'

Which commandments?
Adultery with house maid/slave not wife?

The story is from torah per se by Moses, a few thousand years after the conversation. Moses per torah, per Him, per se was 1350BCE time period. But no torah until about 600 BC. How could anyone know the 'conversations' of god with abram/abraham?

The core of judaiasm, is keep the commandments, learn, write for the new generations and await. The unveiling (what is real) comes over time.

The new covenant.

 

[3rdAngel]

5 because that Abraham hath hearkened to My voice, and keepeth My charge, My commands, My statutes, and My laws.'

Which commandments?
Adultery with house maid/slave not wife?

The story is from torah per se by Moses, a few thousand years after the conversation. Moses per torah, per Him, per se was 1350BCE time period. But no torah until about 600 BC. How could anyone know the 'conversations' of god with abram/abraham?

The core of judaiasm, is keep the commandments, learn, write for the new generations and await. The unveiling (what is real) comes over time.

The new covenant.

Look up the Hebrew word for laws. Abraham was a sinner like me and you. He kept Torah. This includes the laws for atonement for sin in order to receive Gods forgiveness for sin. You really do not know the scriptures do you.

 

[Bthoth]

Look up the Hebrew word for laws. Abraham was a sinner like me and you. He kept Torah.

No such thing as torah during the life time of abram/abraham.

This includes the laws for atonement for sin in order to receive Gods forgiveness for sin.

Forgiveness? Nothing undoes a sin!
Animal sacrificing is about neanderthal and of the ignorant.

You really do not know the scriptures do you.

okey dokey.

You had no idea about the chanpter of abrahm and the covenant, nor the time period or even keeping the heart of truth. (holy spirit)

 

[3rdAngel]

No such thing as torah during the life time of abram/abraham.

Forgiveness? Nothing undoes a sin!
Animal sacrificing is about neanderthal and of the ignorant.

Sure there was. Why do you think he knew about animal sacrifices for sin offerings for atonement of sin? You really do not know the scriptures do you.

You had no idea about the chanpter of abrahm and the covenant, nor the time period or even keeping the heart of truth. (holy spirit)

Sure I did.. That is why Islam is a false teaching.

 

[Elihoenai]

Chronicles 2:3-5

3 And Solomon sent to Huram the king of Tyre, saying, As thou didst deal with David my father, and didst send him cedars to build him an house to dwell therein, even so deal with me.

4 Behold, I build an house to the name of the Lord my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the Lord our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel.

5 And the house which I build is great: for great is our God above all gods.


That Great House Built to Elohim/God is done through Devotedly Observing Old Covenant Establishing the New Covenant With Israel. You cannot Know Israel Without Devotedly Observing the Old Covenant.

 

[3rdAngel]

Chronicles 2:3-5

3 And Solomon sent to Huram the king of Tyre, saying, As thou didst deal with David my father, and didst send him cedars to build him an house to dwell therein, even so deal with me.

4 Behold, I build an house to the name of the Lord my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the Lord our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel.

5 And the house which I build is great: for great is our God above all gods.


That Great House Built to Elohim/God is done through Devotedly Observing Old Covenant Establishing the New Covenant With Israel. You cannot Know Israel Without Devotedly Observing the Old Covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-34

31, Behold, the days come, said the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was an husband to them, said the LORD:

33, But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, said the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34, And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, said the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Israel is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow what Gods Word says.

We are in the new covenant now not the old...

 

[Bthoth]

Sure there was.

Prove that there was a torah during the time of abram 2000 BCE.

Why do you think he knew about animal sacrifices for sin offerings for atonement of sin?

Many pagen beliefs used animal sacrificing. That's the joke of animal sacrificing it's practically neanderthal.

You really do not know the scriptures do you.

I've done the homework to understand the time period of when torah was claimed to be written (post moses) not thousands of years before. Coherence of the time periods, the dialogue of the bible and events is how I found your comments to be cute. You actually have no idea.

Sure I did.. That is why Islam is a false teaching.

Debate has nothing to do with what islame. I made fun of you not comprehending the thread, the convenant and adultery of abram.

 

[Bthoth]

Jeremiah 31:31-34

31, Behold, the days come, said the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was an husband to them, said the LORD:

33, But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, said the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34, And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, said the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

What's the new covenant, exactly? What laws, exactly. Show evidence.

Israel is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow what Gods Word says.

No god gave anyone a name.
The story is not written by a god. Even the story where jacob supposedly got the name changed, represents a man gave it to him.

We are in the new covenant now not the old...

IN? ... So when does "for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, said the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

when does that happen?

Because then it would be NEW for that to occur.

 

[Bthoth]

Chronicles 2:3-5

3 And Solomon sent to Huram the king of Tyre, saying, As thou didst deal with David my father, and didst send him cedars to build him an house to dwell therein, even so deal with me.

4 Behold, I build an house to the name of the Lord my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the Lord our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel.

5 And the house which I build is great: for great is our God above all gods.


That Great House Built to Elohim/God is done through Devotedly Observing Old Covenant Establishing the New Covenant With Israel. You cannot Know Israel Without Devotedly Observing the Old Covenant.

Are you one of those that intend to sacrifice animals again?