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What do you think about Quranists?
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
If it works for them, great!
I am very fierce in my criticism of Islam, even in comparison to my criticism of Abrahamic creeds more generally.
Quranism is probably well-meaning (as are most Muslims and Islamic groups at some level), but I see no reason to spare them.
Anyone who makes any plans out of the presumption of divine guidance by way of scripture is putting himself and others in danger, particularly when the god is comparable to Allah and the degree of reliance is comparable to that of Islamic societies.
Also, it is probably worth noting that Quranism isn't all that radical by a Muslim perspective. Not much of Islam relies on Hadiths ("Ahadith", I think, is the proper form); they are not nearly as central to any given sect as the Qur'an is, besides only rarely beeing seen as anywhere near as authoritative. I doubt it is anywhere near as meaningful (and traumatic) as the division between Shia and Sunni or even the distinction between Sufists and non-Sufists, just plain "exoteric" Muslims (is there a proper term for them? I am not aware of any).
I suspect that you would be hard pressed to even find many people who know for certain whether they are Qur'anists or not. And if you do find those people, odds are that they will learn right then and there that they are indeed Qur'anists despite not having done anything specifically to pursue that path.
It is not very clear whether an open, organized Qur'anist movement even exists. I suspect not; it would have little practical purpose, besides being destined to perpetual accusations of seeking to "divide Muslims" and having to deal with unavoidable differences of interpretation of what Qur'anism would imply. If one ever arises, I am willing to bet money that it will be accused of being in the service of Israel for the destruction of Islam in at most six months' time.
Qur'anism can probably best survive as a fairly unstructured call for avoidance of the supposed dangers of reliance on "suspect", "man-made" Ahadith in favor of the informed inerrancy of the Qur'an. In that form, it is just a specific example of pleading for people to be (supposedly) pure and virtuous according to traditional values. There is nothing that could be more traditional for Muslim cultures than a call for trusting the wisdom of the Qur'am.
In practice, a main role of the Ahadith seems to be as convenient occasional escapegoat and get-free-from-accusations card of sorts. Social acceptance of statements that other Muslims are paying "too much attention to Ahadith" must be far better than claims that other people are "false Muslims" or that they go against what the Qur'an dictates.
Disregarding Ahadith is unavoidable; there isn't agreement on how many and on which should be disregarded, but it is not a very big deal in itself and I assume that most Muslims won't want to press the issue anyway.
Quranism is probably well-meaning (as are most Muslims and Islamic groups at some level), but I see no reason to spare them.
Anyone who makes any plans out of the presumption of divine guidance by way of scripture is putting himself and others in danger, particularly when the god is comparable to Allah and the degree of reliance is comparable to that of Islamic societies.
Also, it is probably worth noting that Quranism isn't all that radical by a Muslim perspective. Not much of Islam relies on Hadiths ("Ahadith", I think, is the proper form); they are not nearly as central to any given sect as the Qur'an is, besides only rarely beeing seen as anywhere near as authoritative. I doubt it is anywhere near as meaningful (and traumatic) as the division between Shia and Sunni or even the distinction between Sufists and non-Sufists, just plain "exoteric" Muslims (is there a proper term for them? I am not aware of any).
I suspect that you would be hard pressed to even find many people who know for certain whether they are Qur'anists or not. And if you do find those people, odds are that they will learn right then and there that they are indeed Qur'anists despite not having done anything specifically to pursue that path.
It is not very clear whether an open, organized Qur'anist movement even exists. I suspect not; it would have little practical purpose, besides being destined to perpetual accusations of seeking to "divide Muslims" and having to deal with unavoidable differences of interpretation of what Qur'anism would imply. If one ever arises, I am willing to bet money that it will be accused of being in the service of Israel for the destruction of Islam in at most six months' time.
Qur'anism can probably best survive as a fairly unstructured call for avoidance of the supposed dangers of reliance on "suspect", "man-made" Ahadith in favor of the informed inerrancy of the Qur'an. In that form, it is just a specific example of pleading for people to be (supposedly) pure and virtuous according to traditional values. There is nothing that could be more traditional for Muslim cultures than a call for trusting the wisdom of the Qur'am.
In practice, a main role of the Ahadith seems to be as convenient occasional escapegoat and get-free-from-accusations card of sorts. Social acceptance of statements that other Muslims are paying "too much attention to Ahadith" must be far better than claims that other people are "false Muslims" or that they go against what the Qur'an dictates.
Disregarding Ahadith is unavoidable; there isn't agreement on how many and on which should be disregarded, but it is not a very big deal in itself and I assume that most Muslims won't want to press the issue anyway.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Yet they have been knocking the s*** out of each other for centuries.
I agree.
Several years ago when I spent time learning about Islam, I ran into a Quran only web site The Misconception of following Hadith and Sunna (sayings and practices traditionally and falsely attributed to Prophet Muhammad) | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam) and for example Are Women & men Equal in Islam (Submission)? | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam)
They are vehement in attacking traditional Muslim societies which they claim are based on false doctrine in ignoring with the Quran, properly translated, says. The link about women is one such example.
This is in general no different from Christians who read the Bible either as literal truth or as metaphor.
To me these different interpretations are worth knowing about in general because they help us avoid assuming that there is only one agreed on way of reading sacred scriptures.
The Ahadith aren't uniformly trusted in the same way even inside each sect. It is very common to point out that certain Ahadith are "trusted" or that they are not.
The Quran commands us to query the family of the reminder for guidance (including miracles and explanation to the Quran).
So it's disobeying the Quran.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
You are wrong
The Quran is perfect and fully detaljed:
[Quran 6:114] Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
We did not leave anything out of the Book. Quran 6:38
[Quran 7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.
[Quran 10:37] This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than God. It confirms all previous messages, and provides a fully detailed scripture. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe.
Isn't this particular point of doctrine the Shia take on the matter, though? It sounds like the Sunni won't agree.
This doesn't go against the need of the family of the reminder and possessors of the authority which Quran tells us we are in need of. Can you tell me what Quran says about how much of taxes should go to healthcare as opposed to military spending? And can you tell the amount of taxes different people should pay according to the Quran?
Can you tell me how many sujoods and rukus are in each of the prayers per Quran?
The Sunnis are divided. Some of the more Sufi leaning would agree with us, others say it's scholars, still other say it's people of the book. Doesn't change the context of it in the Quran makes it clear.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Can you show me in The hadiths how you should pray step by step?
Yes I can. There is a particular one that is very detailed.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
how detailed?
Does it explain the whole prayer?
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
How to observe the Contact Prayer (Salah) | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam)
Here it explain the salah prayer from only the Quran
You do not need hadiths to know how to pray the salah prayer
It's a good try, but it's false per Quran itself. I don't want to go debate into details but taking Mohammad (s) name out goes against the heart of what Quran terms the connection. Same with not blessing the family of Mohammad (s) in Salah.
There prayer is similar to how Iblis would accept God but hated Adam (a). Their hatred of Mohammad (s) name in Adan, Iqama, and Salah speaks volumes of how lost they are and how disconnected they are from the light and guidance.
Yes, I will share it soon. I have an assignment due Wednesday midnight, and so when time permits.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
So you do not believe in these verses in the Quran?
[Quran 6:114] Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
We did not leave anything out of the Book. Quran 6:38
[Quran 7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe
No need for hadiths according to The Quran
I believe in the verses, just not their conclusions from the verses.