Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I never read it that way. What makes you think the God who said: "Have no other gods before me" is any different from YHVH?
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If a person claiming to be Christ comes today, how do you know it is really *not* him?
- Thread starter danieldemol
- Start date
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe one has to be cruel to be loving and jealousy simply means defending what belongs to you.
It is not about how you read it .. this is the whole point .. nor about how I read it .. nor about how your Priest or the theologian reads it.
The question is how did Abraham read it .. / what did Abe think in 1800BC .. and those around him .. and/or the Israelite and those around him in 900 BC.
To your question .. It is YHWH who says "Have no other God's before me" .. .. so I don't think the two are different ?? .. YHWH is the God of Exodus 20 .. what YHWH is not is the God of Abraham "EL" Chief God of the Canaanite Pantheon .. and head of the Divine Council of Psalm 82
1. YHWH stands in[b] the assembly of El;[c] in the midst of the gods[d] he renders judgment.[
Abe and all thouse around him .. the Israelites and all the peoples around them .. know what the Assembly of EL is. and the footnote c tells you this .. click and read
The phrase עֲדַת אֵל (ʿadat ʾel, “assembly of El”) appears only here in the OT. (1) Some understand “El” to refer to God himself. In this case he is pictured presiding over his own heavenly assembly. (2) Others take אֵל as a superlative here (“God stands in the great assembly”), as in Pss 36:6 and 80:10. (3) The present translation assumes this is a reference to the Canaanite high god El, who presided over the Canaanite divine assembly. (See Isa 14:13, where El’s assembly is called “the stars of El.”) In the Ugaritic myths the phrase ʿdt ʾilm refers to the “assembly of the gods,” who congregate in King Kirtu’s house, where Baal asks El to bless Kirtu’s house (see G. R. Driver, Canaanite Myths and Legends, 91). If the Canaanite divine assembly is referred to here in Ps 82:1, then the psalm must be understood as a bold polemic against Canaanite religion. Israel’s God invades El’s assembly, denounces its gods as failing to uphold justice, and announces their coming demise. For an interpretation of the psalm along these lines, see W. VanGemeren, “Psalms,” EBC 5:533-36.
So .. what I am telling you.. is now accepted modern biblical scholarship..
YHWH is one of the Son's of El .. as described in Deut 32:8 .. El Elyon divides the nations of the earth among his children .. YHWH's portion is Jacob.
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Deut 32: "The Song of Moses"
3“For I proclaim the name [and presence] of the LORD;
Ascribe greatness and honor to our God!
4“The Rock! His work is perfect,
For all His ways are just;
A God of faithfulness without iniquity (injustice),
Just and upright is He..........
6“Do you thus repay the LORD,
O foolish and unwise people?
Is not He your Father who has acquired you [as His own]?
He has made you and established you [as a nation]............
8“When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
When He separated the sons of man,
He set the boundaries of the peoples
According to the number of the sons of Israel.
9“For the LORD’S portion and chosen share is His people;
Jacob (Israel) is the allotment of His inheritance.
10“He found him in a desert land,
In the howling wasteland of a wilderness;
He kept circling him, He took care of him,
He protected him as the [a]apple of His eye.
So if I'm following you and this text correctly, in The Song of Moses in Deut 32, The LORD and The Rock are the same god, but not God, The Most High, correct?
The Most High, you identify as El, and that makes LORD, YHWH, correct? Is this where YHWH first appears?
Per the text above, YHWH received his inheritance while Israel was wondering the desert, right? So was it The Most High, El, that protected Moses, parted the Red Sea, and goes back in Scripture to Abraham and Melchizedek?
Who spoke to Noah to prepare for a humanity reset.
This is interesting stuff!
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
And God created humans in his own image and we are cruel and jealous.
Yes .. this is the correct and accepted translation by modern scholarship .. El = El Elyon -- God Most High .. God of Abraham. El Oliun "God Supreme" El Shaddai .. God who dwells high in the mountain ..
Your text contains a mistranslation . Sons of Israel .. NO .. that is 100% not it ... "pious Fraud" by the translater .. Modern translations will correct this .. such as the New English Translation
When the Most High[l] gave the nations their inheritance,
when he divided up humankind,[m]
he set the boundaries of the peoples,
according to the number of the heavenly assembly.[n]
9 For YHWH's allotment is his people,
Jacob is his special possession.[o]
YHWH is the God of Moses .. it is YHWH who parts the reed sea.. which is fitting for a storm God .. and the Priesthood of YHWH is the Aaronic / Levitical Priesthood .. not the priesthood of Zedek.
KK .. so EL is the God of Abraham -- see Encyclopedia Britannica "Abraham"
.. The Priestly order of this God Melchi-Zedek. Melchi-Zedek is the Canaanite Priest-King of Jerusalem at the time of Abe ... together they worship the Chief God of the Canaanite Patheon .. EL Now -- Zedek . is tha Patron God of Jerusalem -- a twin God of Justice and Righteous .. who sits at the Right hand of "The Father" on the Divine Council .
This priesthood is maintained at Jerusalem for 800 Years .. When David shows up ~1000 BC .. the name of the King is Adoni-Zedek .. My God is Zedek"
Now .. interestingly .. instead of slaughtering all the pagan Priests as usual .. David makes the High Priest who's name is Zadok .. High Priest of the Israel.. and interestingly there is a competition between this and the Aaronite Priest .. Zadok wins the battle .. it is Zadok who annoints King Solomon.
David Psalm 110 -- is a Priest of the Order Melchi-Zedek .. Jesus is a priest of the Order of Melchi-Zedek Hebrews 6. which is fitting is it not ? Does Jesus not sit at the right hand of God .. The Father .. dispensing Justice ? punishing the Unjust .. and rewarding the righteous "Sheep and Goats Parable" .. Matt 25.
and what is the city of Jerusalem = "City of Peace" .. Jesus the "prince of Peace".
Things that make you go Hmmmmmm
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Also to add: Jehovah spoke of Israel as His son, interestingly enough his firstborn.
Exodus 4:22,23 - "Then tell Pharaoh that this is what the LORD says: ‘Israel is My firstborn son, 23and I told you to let My son go so that he may worship Me" (Berean Standard Bible)
@Spice Yes, it's interesting, and gets more interesting as time goes by...
Exodus 4:22,23 - "Then tell Pharaoh that this is what the LORD says: ‘Israel is My firstborn son, 23and I told you to let My son go so that he may worship Me" (Berean Standard Bible)
@Spice Yes, it's interesting, and gets more interesting as time goes by...
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Nope, because God is not cruel or jealous. Cruel and jealous God is not real. It is the anthropomorphic God of the OT. Imo.
People are free to believe the God of the OT is real if they want to, but I never will.
I believe that humans were created in the image of the real God who is Good, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, Patient.
Humans have the 'potential' to reflect these attributes of God and we reflect them to a greater of lesser degree, depending upon how spiritual they are.
I believe that when humans are cruel and jealous that is because they do not reflect their spiritual nature, which is made in the image of God.
KK .. so that God of the Bible .. with the most Petty and nasty of Human traits .. we don't like that God .. but this other God .. who is not anthropomorphic .. we were created in the image of it .. and like this God .. humans are "Good, loving, gracious, just righteous and so on ?
Do you see how that kinda makes no sense TB .. what it is that you believe... ?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It makes sense to me because God is not a man the way the OT depicts God.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
1 in 20.
think that detracts unfortunately .. rather than adds. ... as while interesting this has nothing to do with the connection between El "The Father" .. and Jesus .. nor any relation to the priesthood of Melchi-Zedek
To address your content - YHWH is also a Son of EL .. but one very much unlike Jesus .. a different kind of "Son" .. that difference a topic for another time.
El gives each of his 70 sons a nation .. YHWH' portion is the Israelites... .. and so yes these are his Children .. his People and YHWH is the National God of Israel .. thou worshiped alongside other Gods such as Consort Asherah Queen of heaven and their "Firstborn child" Anat .. in a Trinity ... Father - Mother - Daughter.
The Cult of Jehovah however is not the Cult of EL .. the "State Cult" or Royal Cult .. the priestly Order of YHWH is not the Priestly order of EL .. The priesthood of the YHWH cult is the Aaronite/Levitical Priesthood. .. the Priesthood of the Cult of EL is the Zadokite Priesthood .. and it is this priesthood that David and Jesus are members .. ""NOT"" --- the Cult of Jehovah.
Do you understand what this means friend .. that you do not have to worry about the nasty commands from the covenant of YHWH .. cause Jesus follow a different God .. and he was the Logos of the Covenant with that God.
See how conveinient that was .. and how well that worked .. and how good it feels not to be subject to that xenophobic genocidal maniac with the most petty as nasty of human failings .. .. Jealous of what exactly ?? --- if you are the only God in the Universe ?? OHH .. OHHH .. Tell me not that Occam's Razor dictates .. that the only thing this God would have to be Jealous of is other Gods .. 'Literally" .. just as the Bible Says . .. so when it says "When the Sons of God came to present themselves before God Supreme .. "El Oliun" .. it means "The Sons of God" .. as in "The Sons of God" presenting themselves .. before their Father .. the only other reading would be plural .. Sons of Gods .. indicating that these could be the sons of more than just the Chief God of the heavens EL .
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I do not believe anything you offer demonstrates/proves or implies that God does not have sons.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Isn't it true, when did G-d have any wife that he would have a son from her; no never no, right, please???
Regards
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Ah, but, Paarsurrey, God is neither male nor female, and yet God is both. In heaven God can and has created alone, for God is the Infinite ONE. The Supreme Alpha. And should there ever be an end, God is also the Supreme Omega.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
If a person claiming to be Christ comes today, how do you know it is really *not* him?
paarsurrey said:When did G-d have a wife that he would have a son from her; no never no, right, please???
Isn't it is totally wrong; if (Jesus*) needed a mother ( human wife unto G-d) to be born then he must need a human father also, please, right???
Regards
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
It is my belief that he did -- Joseph probably. It is my belief he was fully human and on his last incarnation. His achievement of perfection, and the first human to reach it, was identified, IMO, when the dove ascended unto him at his baptism and The Father stated His adoption into godliness. Then the story of his resurrection was to complete The Way noted in Revelation 1:5a and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth; and set the mark for us all to meet as per Revelation 3:12 He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Why do you keep spelling the word God with a hyphen? Perhaps you can try answering that. please. then maybe we can discuss other subjects. Thank you and please, right?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You misquoted me, either you did not understand or you deliberately left out part of my sentence above. So try again, please. Thank you. Then perhaps we can go on.