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  1. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    I'm not aware they recorded anything that has survived. As scholars have said, the gospels are anonymous. There were some books, such as the Gospels, that had been written anonymously, only later to be ascribed to certain authors who probably did not write them (apostles and friends of the...
  2. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    Have any survived?
  3. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    Dogknox, if you have sources for these letters I'd love to read them.
  4. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    cOLTER, are you saying someone wrote down Jesus' words while he was saying them??????
  5. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    The matter is pretty simple: there is no corroborating evidence the gospel writers had any sources from which to draw the words they wrote in for Jesus. Example: 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will...
  6. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    Exactly.
  7. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    I'd love to read the Q. Do you have a link or reference?
  8. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    Sure they did. They were trying to turn Jesus from a spiritual dying/rising god into a real live flesh and bone one who lived and died on earth, so they had to have words to put into his mouth. With no written sources from which to draw they had to make it up. What else could they do. They were...
  9. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    Dogknox, with all due respect there are NO letters extant written about Jesus and his words. The first thing that surfaces that is recognized by scholars are the 7 authentic epistles by Paul and he is writing 25-35 years after the crucifixion. Furthermore, he says NOTHING about Jesus words...
  10. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    But you talk as if we have copies of Q to be able to verify what's in it and how it compares to the gospels when we don't. Q is a hypothetical document. As such, all scholars can do is theorize what was contained in it. Lots of scholars believe that Matthew and Luke had a copy of Mark (1st...
  11. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    We have no evidence of anything the apostles said or did. It's a blank slate. We only have what the gospel writers CLAIM the apostles said and did.
  12. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    Yes, there's probably nothing of whatever Jesus originally taught still in existence. I believe he was more a revolutionary against Rome than a holy man. As a holy man he is more an avatar/mascot/figurehead for Christianity. Only the things wrongly ascribed to him have any relevance to anyone...
  13. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    We don't have any of the first generation of copies. The vast majority of these 5,000 copies date from the Medieval period. None from the 2nd century.
  14. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    Yes, realizing that the people writing the gospels were more intent on building that foundation using whatever doctrine was necessary to achieve their purposes, even to the point of inventing doctrine to suit the growth of the religion and then inserting that doctrine into the text. The Trinity...
  15. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    The best that can be said for oral tradition is that possibly the gist of what was said was remembered, like, "Love you neighbor as yourself". Nobody remembered orally the entire sermon on the mount. That's crazy.
  16. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    How many literalists do we have just on this board? All the Christians I come in contact with believe every word was spoken by Jesus exactly as written.
  17. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    I think you're posing a red herring here. We have no evidence whatsoever anybody took notes while Jesus was talking to preserve what he said. The people including the apostles following Jesus were peasants who were illiterate. The only people who could write back then were the educated elite and...
  18. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    Everything you say is spot on, Christine, but especially The bold above. Scriptures are written and revised and redacted based not on the truth or the veracity of the original person's words, but on the devious intents of the person re-writing the scriptures and the religious agenda they are...
  19. SeekingAllTruth

    The Fallacy that Jesus said what is written in the gospels

    It was supposed to be the start of a conversation but the Christian never responded. I wonder why. Here's the gist of what I said: The Greek scholars who wrote the gospels, far as we know, didn't have any sources--notes or documents from which to draw on when writing down Jesus' words in...
  20. SeekingAllTruth

    What ONE critical piece of information made you decide to believe or disbelieve Jesus rose?

    Especially when it says something as ridiculously dangerous as "In my name they shall cast out devils, speak with new tongues, they shall take up poisonous serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them. They shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.” Mark...
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