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  1. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Yes. Is there also an idea among followers of Islam that one should--as far as he or she is able and when appropriate--try to immitate Allah? So that the idea is he might help us become a little more like him in our behavior? It's a concept found in what I think the Quran callsThe Book: 1...
  2. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Yes, such is likely an unjust act. But is it a vengeful one? I tend to think of vengeance as an act of hatred, so that every vengeful act is a hateful one. But it seems you disagree. Perhaps you will persuade me?
  3. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    You might be right. That remains to be seen. So is there some other condition one might meet to make an otherwise act of justice an act of vengeance?
  4. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    I appreciate the response. So would you say that what makes an act one of justice and not revenge is the lack of hatred on the part committing the act? That is, if the same just act of retribution is carried out by two people--one who feels hatred against the one acted upon and one who feels no...
  5. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Thanks for another reply. I wonder if what you say is true. If by unconditional you mean arbitrary, I'm not so sure I agree--at least not yet. Let me give you just a couple of brief examples to illustrate why: 32 Two other men, both criminals, were also led out with him to be executed. 33 When...
  6. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    I like the phrase, "son of Adam," as opposed to the biblical phrase, "son of Abraham." Jewish people, Christians and Muslims might all be considered sons and daughters of Abraham, but anyone--no matter what religion or lack thereof--is a son of Adam. Makes me think Allah's forgiveness is...
  7. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Are you thinking of evil acts as specific types of behavior? Or are you thinking any act--no matter how comparatively insignificant--of which Allah disapproves is evil? If the latter, then my experience is that part of what makes such acts evil is the desire one has to repeat them. But if you...
  8. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Thanks for replying, Pastek. I did a quick search of the Quran online and found the phrase, "Allah is forgiving and most merciful," repeated often. Seems to be a prominent theme of the book. I hear what you are saying about murderers and rapists. In your opinion, are there any conditions such...
  9. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    To all: I really appreciate the thoughtful replies. I find each one has been helpful in helping me think this through. Looking forward to continuing the dialogue. :)
  10. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Yes, I think you must be right. G-d's command to King Saul to kill them all might be one example. It's something I struggle to understand. For I don't agree with Christians who say G-d is a G-d of wrath in the Old Testament but a G-d of love in the New. Does the perfect G-d ever need to change...
  11. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Saint Frankenstein: It's a problem for me, too! That's why I ask. :) I think one reason it's a challenge for me is this warning from Jesus: 14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins...
  12. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Good advice from the Koran, that is! I think the Bible would be less ambiguous if it used the word pardon instead of the word forgive. Forgive can mean different things. Pardon means one thing--taking no action to punish the offender. I think that is the intended meaning of the words...
  13. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Geoff Allen: Thanks for the link. I agree forgiving is good for me. But I wonder if it is meant to be good for others. I like this quote from the link, but do you think I'm not sure it is true. How about you? Be assured that if you knew all, you would pardon all. (Thomas a Kempis)
  14. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    NoX: Thank you so much for replying. Good to have another perspective. I read the Qu'ran once. I found it a good read, although I'm sure it must be even better in Arabic. Can you think of one example of when forgiving would be a crime? Or if not, do you recall any passages from the Qu'ran...
  15. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Oh, yes. I see. So there is never a time when it is wrong to forgive is what you are saying. True?
  16. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Yes, no problem. I was just thinking out loud and not really expecting you to know. I'm sorry. You lost me. What do you mean by positive? Also, I can think of many times when forgiveness might not be. When someone does no wrong to me, for example. But are you saying you can think of no example...
  17. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Yes, and I find it interesting that when asked what the greatest commandment was, Jesus quoted Deut. 6:4, saying it was the greatest and Lev.19:18, saying it was like the greatest. But for some reason, he left out the words, "Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your...
  18. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. (Deut. 6:5) Yes, and I suppose Jesus was right when he taught that perhaps the best way to express love for G-d was to follow these commands: “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone...
  19. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    Indeed! A small step for some, but a giant leap for many. But is it a necessary step required to forgive, or an extra step besides forgiving?
  20. Spockrates

    To Forgive or Not to Forgive?

    LOL! I think I get the joke about inappropriate touching. But seriously, it seem to me that some acts might be genuine acts of forgiveness. For example, in the excellent film Schindler's List, the protagonist of the film advises the Nazi officer in charge of a concentration camp that one of the...
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