‘Jesus was WITH GOD’ therefore Jesus WAS GOD?

[101G]

‘First and Last’ just means ‘Only’, ‘The only one’.

prove it
101G.

 

[101G]

John 1:1 is not speaking about Jesus. Where are you getting your nonsense from?

well then who is it speaking about?

101G

 

[Soapy]

prove it
101G.

The first and last of anything is the only one of its kind….

Jesus is the first and the last to be raised from the dead by God.

Jesus is the first and last to be eternally completely sinless - the one and only man who is has never sinned.

YHWH is the first and last deity of the Jews - their one and only God.

YHWH is the first and last creator of all things - the one and only creator.

YHWH, the ruler of the spirit kingdom, created a physical kingdom to be ruled over by a physical ruler who is His image. This physical rulership was the temptation that Satan offered to Jesus in the wilderness temptation trials.

The physical world rulership is current in the hands of a steward, Satan, who knows his position is untenable, even though he would have to hand it over to the one from mankind who YHWH chose as his perfect Son (whomever it turned out to be!) Satan tried to hold onto his stewardship and obtain worship from mankind (‘Bow down to me and I will give it to you!’ Which was a lie but that’s who Satan is: The father of the lie!) but failed and is awaiting his fate - which is eternal destruction!

Disprove it?

 

[Soapy]

well then who is it speaking about?

101G

101G, it’s been said, over and over and over. Why have you not been listening?

‘The word of God’…
GOD’s word: ‘Let there be …!’ and it was!!

Psalm 33:6-8 says that YHWH (‘LORD’ in many bibles) created all things BY HIS WORD - by the breathe of his mouth!

That should be clear… can you deny it?

But also, YHWH’s word was that a messiah would come to be the saviour of mankind… THAT WAS HIS WORD to the nations…

And, in the fullness of time THAT WORD OF YHWH PUT ON FLESH… which is to say, “CAME TO FRUITION”. The PROMISED MESSIAH was born as the human child, given the name, ‘Jesus’ (‘Yeshua’ / ‘Joseph’ - pick you’d language!!)

Jesus LEARNT the Torah, he learnt TRUTH and RIGHTEOUSNESS from YHWH until he was called into service to YHWH at the age of 30 - AFTER he was ANOINTED for priesthood and kingship (standard procedure as per many others) but this anointment was not with sacred oil that only priests knew or used, but with SPIRITUAL OIL of GOD, the Spirit of God, at the river Jordan. A scripture writer stated this concerning that event:

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.” (Acts 10:37-38)

And Jesus announced similar:

• “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free and to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor…. Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” (Luke 4:18-21)
• “It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’ and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” (Luke 22:37)

So there you have it.

 

[Muffled]

This should be a very short debate:

• If Jesus was ‘WITH God’ how could he ‘BE GOD’?
• Who is ‘GOD’ that Jesus was ‘WITH’?

I believe that is easy: God who is everyhwere with God who is in the body of Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

God the Son was with God the Father from the eternal past.

I believe that is not true. Jesus was born so He could not have been in the eternal past. God who was in Jesus was in the eternal past but was not a separate Spirit

 

[Muffled]

I do. But there's at least two sides to every story.



amen



amen

I believe I will go with God's side of the story.

 

[Muffled]

GINOLJC, to all,
First thanks for the reply. second, no, the TRUTH do not have two faces, and nor two mouths. the TRUTH is not two faced, nor double tongued. there are no options in God Word of truth. Matthew 5:37 "But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

for the benefit of the doubt what is your other side. 101G will hear you out......

101G.

I believe it will not be the truth because it will not come from God.

 

[Colt]

I believe that is not true. Jesus was born so He could not have been in the eternal past. God who was in Jesus was in the eternal past but was not a separate Spirit

I believe that the Son of God is separate from the Father and came into existence sometime in the eternal past. Not some sort of conjoined twin like being or an appendage on God, but a separate, volitional being.

 

[dybmh]

(smile), LOL, what will they do for a Klondike Bar. now read the conditions for this. Leviticus 26:41 "And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:" that's the condition, see God told them... You to circumcise your hearts and be humbled. Deuteronomy 10:16 "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." see, you all was not. and also as said that was under the OLD COVENANT. Leviticus 26:46 "These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses." YIKES! now we have a NEW COVENANT. so you cannot used that either.your law and OT covenant testify against you. but let's hear what you must do.

Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

None of this contradicts, replaces, or invalidates what I brought.

now who "NAME" do one call on to be delivered? Acts 4:10 "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole." Acts 4:11 "This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner." Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel" now you know too.

Sorry, this makes Peter a false prophet.

but did you? no, see Jeremiah 31:31-32

Of course we have. That was a long long time ago.

not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, by accepting your redemption in Christ Jesus.... until then .... you're still in your sins.

Not true. You simply don't understand.

STOP, are you hard of hearing? or still stiffed-necked just as the LORD said. Deuteronomy 10:16 "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." see, you have not changed. now for the LAST TIME. Psalms 110:4 "The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek." READ HEBREWS CHAPTER 5-CHAPTER 8.

now, 101G will not say anything else unto you about the order of Melchizedek, for you have been told.

You said, God changed the law. But that's not true. Hebrews flip-flops scripture and makes ridiculous claims. It has no authority.

LOL, LOL, LOL, the temple been under construction since the day of Pentecost... lol, lol, and is ongoing even as we speak.....(smile), lol, Oh dear, those who love darkness still cannot see... Oh well.

That's a different temple.

 

[dybmh]

I am asking those who DO THINK SO to justify their belief… clearly, you are not of such persons.

Got it. I guess the reason I tried to contribute to this thread is because, I don't think it takes much to shift the miscomprehension into truth regarding what is written in the Gospel of John. If you recall, all I had to do was leave out two words "God's will" from what I said, and everything else I said sounded like rubbish because of it. And then, once those two words were added back... poof, I'm backing to making a correct statement. This tells me that there is a subtle yet vital detail missing which is causing the rift. So, I'm wondering, how is the best way to approach this dilemma? And I think a good way would be to start with acknowledging all of the true things that are being said, and then after common ground is established, propose that this subtle detail be included in their understanding. If it works, it would be great, right?

 

[101G]

Jesus is the first and the last to be raised from the dead by God.

first ERROR of the day. Jesus the Last "BODY" was raised from the dead by his "own self" in the ECHAD, see John 2:18-22 and tell us who raised up that body. looking to hear your answer.

FYI. the ordinal "First" never died a first death nor any other death. understand now? so, your statement is faulty.

Jesus is the first and last to be eternally completely sinless - the one and only man who is has never sinned.

see above

YHWH is the first and last deity of the Jews - their one and only God.

YHWH is Jesus. who is the ONLY TRUE God of the ENTIRE World.

YHWH is the first and last creator of all things - the one and only creator.

Another ERROR on your Part. is not the Lord Jesus the "Last?" yes, so did the Last CREATE and Make all things, NO, and 101G say NO again.
so, the Lord Jesus the LAST made man? no. and here's why. Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."IS THIS THE "Lord" JESUS THE LAST? no, listen and Learn. Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?"Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," DID HE SAY "HE" MADE THEM? NO, HE SAID GOD DID. BUT IS NOT JESUS GOD? YES, BUT HERE IN THE ECHAD, AS THE ORDINAL, HE MADE NOTHING. ... (Smile)... Oh this nis too easy. so, again your statement is untrue.

Disprove it?

see all above .,......

101G.

 

[101G]

101G, it’s been said, over and over and over. Why have you not been listening?

‘The word of God’…
GOD’s word: ‘Let there be …!’ and it was!!

Psalm 33:6-8 says that YHWH (‘LORD’ in many bibles) created all things BY HIS WORD - by the breathe of his mouth!

That should be clear… can you deny it?

But also, YHWH’s word was that a messiah would come to be the saviour of mankind… THAT WAS HIS WORD to the nations…

And, in the fullness of time THAT WORD OF YHWH PUT ON FLESH… which is to say, “CAME TO FRUITION”. The PROMISED MESSIAH was born as the human child, given the name, ‘Jesus’ (‘Yeshua’ / ‘Joseph’ - pick you’d language!!)

Jesus LEARNT the Torah, he learnt TRUTH and RIGHTEOUSNESS from YHWH until he was called into service to YHWH at the age of 30 - AFTER he was ANOINTED for priesthood and kingship (standard procedure as per many others) but this anointment was not with sacred oil that only priests knew or used, but with SPIRITUAL OIL of GOD, the Spirit of God, at the river Jordan. A scripture writer stated this concerning that event:

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.” (Acts 10:37-38)

And Jesus announced similar:

• “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free and to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor…. Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” (Luke 4:18-21)
• “It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’ and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” (Luke 22:37)

So there you have it.

let's put all this nonesense to rest.

the Spirit of the "Lord?". listen and learn. 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

the Spirit of Christ is the Word that said ... "let there be" in Genesis 1, which is Jesus the Ordinal Last. you have been reproved again.

 

[Soapy]

Got it. I guess the reason I tried to contribute to this thread is because, I don't think it takes much to shift the miscomprehension into truth regarding what is written in the Gospel of John. If you recall, all I had to do was leave out two words "God's will" from what I said, and everything else I said sounded like rubbish because of it. And then, once those two words were added back... poof, I'm backing to making a correct statement. This tells me that there is a subtle yet vital detail missing which is causing the rift. So, I'm wondering, how is the best way to approach this dilemma? And I think a good way would be to start with acknowledging all of the true things that are being said, and then after common ground is established, propose that this subtle detail be included in their understanding. If it works, it would be great, right?

Great idea… but you underestimate the skill fullness of the satanic one: the Father of lies and his students: Trinitarians (and medalists, and n fact, everyone who believes Jesus is almighty God in any sense!)

 

[Soapy]

first ERROR of the day. Jesus the Last "BODY" was raised from the dead by his "own self" in the ECHAD, see John 2:18-22 and tell us who raised up that body. looking to hear your answer.

FYI. the ordinal "First" never died a first death nor any other death. understand now? so, your statement is faulty.

see above

YHWH is Jesus. who is the ONLY TRUE God of the ENTIRE World.

Another ERROR on your Part. is not the Lord Jesus the "Last?" yes, so did the Last CREATE and Make all things, NO, and 101G say NO again.
so, the Lord Jesus the LAST made man? no. and here's why. Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."IS THIS THE "Lord" JESUS THE LAST? no, listen and Learn. Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?"Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," DID HE SAY "HE" MADE THEM? NO, HE SAID GOD DID. BUT IS NOT JESUS GOD? YES, BUT HERE IN THE ECHAD, AS THE ORDINAL, HE MADE NOTHING. ... (Smile)... Oh this nis too easy. so, again your statement is untrue.

see all above .,......

101G.

LSD…!?

 

[Soapy]

let's put all this nonesense to rest.

the Spirit of the "Lord?". listen and learn. 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

the Spirit of Christ is the Word that said ... "let there be" in Genesis 1, which is Jesus the Ordinal Last. you have been reproved again.

And you say you are not a Modalist?

 

[101G]

LSD…!?

LSD? ....(smile), LOL, LOL, LOL,,,,

 

[101G]

And you say you are not a Modalist?

no, I know I'm not a Modalist ... (smile).... Oh dear

do you even KNOW what a diversified "ECHAD" is? .... guess not.

101G.

 

[dybmh]

Great idea… but you underestimate the skill fullness of the satanic one: the Father of lies and his students: Trinitarians (and medalists, and n fact, everyone who believes Jesus is almighty God in any sense!)

If I understand, Jesus defeated Satan with truth? In other words, Satan could not deny it?

 

[Soapy]

If I understand, Jesus defeated Satan with truth? In other words, Satan could not deny it?

That’s not what you and I need to worry about even as we can use that as our comfort. We need to worry about Satan coming after us - as he will!! And he is here in this forum and in this thread…