10 Most Common Misconceptions about Islam

[Bismillah]

Indeed, that's certainly one interpretation. One among many.

Ah no, you'll find the Ulama is quite clear on the standing of the Ahmadiyyas. They are non-Muslims.

 

[Vendetta]

A humble suggestion:

When the Moors Ruled in Europe


In the early to mid 700s the Muslims came to Spain, and something interesting this documentary talks about is that the digs they've done on Visagoth ruins don't show signs of conquering or destruction, but rather it's postulated that they welcomed them as a solidifying agent.


With all due respect to what you know, I feel this might be a pretty interesting watch for you both.
The victor gets to write history, which the Christian eventually were in Spain... but ruins are empirical evidence that doesn't lie or have ego to protect.

:namate
SageTree

Only reason why they were welcomed because Europe was already in disaray. With Feudal Lords and the population dwindling due to disease and injustice an outside invader is welcomed. But again that doesn't answer the question. Despite what Europe was going through what is an army doing at the doorbof Spain uninvited? Yes southern Spain became a global center for intellectual dialogue. However, intellectuals like Moses Maimonides and Averroes were eventually ostracized in Almohad dynasty.

 

[Bismillah]

Based on our prior conversations Bis, I would assume that you are a conservative muslim? If you are, how would you explain the liberal muslims? They obviously do not see or practice Islam as you do.

As to the question of "moderate Muslims" it is to cause division and distancing of Muslims of their religion. It is a term that is on the other end of the label "extremist" and intricately tied with the modern day usage of the word terrorist. It is to create a self-defense mechanism, after all who wants to be called a terrorist or fundamentalist? Nay, I am a moderate I am progressive!

There is no such thing as "moderation" in Islam, you either follow the religion or you don't.

I am a Muslim. I pray five times a day, I fast, I pay alms. Those who don't do this aren't "liberal or progressive Muslims" they are Muslims not fulfilling the required texts of their deen.

 

[McBell]

Ah no, you'll find the Ulama is quite clear on the standing of the Ahmadiyyas. They are non-Muslims.

Yet it is still merely one interpretation of many.

How many Hadith's are there?

 

[McBell]

I am a Muslim. I pray five times a day, I fast, I pay alms. Those who don't do this aren't "liberal or progressive Muslims" they are Muslims not fulfilling the required texts of their deen.

This is nothing more than one of many interpretations.

 

[Bismillah]

Yet it is still merely one interpretation of many.

That is not "one interpretation" that is the ijma of those who matter in such fields.

How many Hadith's are there?

Irrelevant unless you can fetch me one that states that there will come another Prophet after the Prophet Muhammad.

This is nothing more than one of many interpretations.

You do realize there are certain actions that are considered fard in Islam? It is not an interpretation, it is an explicit command in Islam.

You are trying to spin the prayers, for example, as qiyas or deductive reasoning?

 

[kai]

A humble suggestion:

When the Moors Ruled in Europe


In the early to mid 700s the Muslims came to Spain, and something interesting this documentary talks about is that the digs they've done on Visagoth ruins don't show signs of conquering or destruction, but rather it's postulated that they welcomed them as a solidifying agent.


With all due respect to what you know, I feel this might be a pretty interesting watch for you both.
The victor gets to write history, which the Christian eventually were in Spain... but ruins are empirical evidence that doesn't lie or have ego to protect.

:namate
SageTree

Oh please no more they came in peace stories!!!!


The Battle of Guadalete was fought in 711 or 712 at an unidentified location between the Christian Visigoths of Hispania under their king, Roderic, and an invading force of Muslim Arabs and Berbers under Ṭāriq ibn Ziyad. The battle was significant as the culmination of a series of Arab-Berber attacks and the beginning of the Islamic conquest of Hispania. In the battle Roderic probably lost his life, along with many members of the Visigothic nobility, opening the way for the capture of Visigothic capital of Toledo.


http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2475607

 

[McBell]

That is not "one interpretation" that is the ijma of those who matter in such fields. Irrelevant unless you can fetch me one that states that there will come another Prophet after the Prophet Muhammad.

So there is not one single thing in Islam that Muslims disagree on?

You do realize there are certain actions that are considered fard in Islam? It is not an interpretation, it is an explicit command in Islam.

And?
I have this really nasty feeling that you are extremely close to declaring a No True Scotsman

You are trying to spin the prayers, for example, as qiyas or deductive reasoning?

I am merely pointing out the fact that there are different interpretations what the Koran says.
The fact that there are so many differing Hadith's prove it.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

I am a Muslim. I pray five times a day, I fast, I pay alms. Those who don't do this aren't "liberal or progressive Muslims" they are Muslims not fulfilling the required texts of their deen.

Ah i see now. So you are a fundy Muslim. I understand now. The way you explain it is exactly how Fundy Xtians do.

Unfortunately, regardless of your fundy views, there are many more "Interpretations" of the Koran and Hadiths. You may not acknowledge it, but that doesn't change the fact. It's just like Fundy Xtains saying all the other denominations aren't true Xtains. Same s*** different religion.



*EDIT* Just for clarification, I am not using the term Fundy in a derogatory fashion. Some people use it that way, I am not in this instance.

 

[Bismillah]

So there is not one single thing in Islam that Muslims disagree on?

How did you get that from this? "That is not "one interpretation" that is the ijma of those who matter in such fields." Ijma means consensus. Particularly on this subject there is a consensus that Ahmadiyyas are not Muslims. As I said your reference to the Hadith was strange, as if there existence provided the proof that Ahmadiyyas are Muslim. Unless you present a sahih hadith as such then there is no point in referencing them.

And?
I have this really nasty feeling that you are extremely close to declaring a No True Scotsman

And? There is no and if you accept my premise that there are certain things that certain things are fard then they are obligatory. A Muslim who does not perform his prayers is not practicing his religion. There are certain things within Islam that are established Aqeedah or creed, if one does not believe in them then they are not a Muslim.

For example, if one does not believe in the necessity of prayer (note not the actual performing of but the belief in) then he is no longer a Muslim, that is the ijma of Islamic scholars.

 

[David M]

(Sharing an article)

"Islam is probably the least understood and most demonized religion today. The critics of Islam have created this persona based primarily on misconceptions, ignorance and malice. You’ve probably heard of some of the following common misconceptions about Islam."


A Nice article.



The Ten Most Common Misconceptions about Islam

A number of their "Misconceptions" are strawman arguments and their responses are very weak.

 

[SageTree]

Only reason why they were welcomed because Europe was already in disaray. With Feudal Lords and the population dwindling due to disease and injustice an outside invader is welcomed. But again that doesn't answer the question. Despite what Europe was going through what is an army doing at the door of Spain uninvited? Yes southern Spain became a global center for intellectual dialogue. However, intellectuals like Moses Maimonides and Averroes were eventually ostracized in Almohad dynasty.

Not sure what the 'question' was, as I was only replying to my opinion on the 'aggressive' comment in your post.

The 'door of Spain' is 7 miles off the coast of Morocco.... Why wouldn't they have sailed a boat across that little body of water?

Oh please no more they came in peace stories!!!!


The Battle of Guadalete was fought in 711 or 712 at an unidentified location between the Christian Visigoths of Hispania under their king, Roderic, and an invading force of Muslim Arabs and Berbers under Ṭāriq ibn Ziyad. The battle was significant as the culmination of a series of Arab-Berber attacks and the beginning of the Islamic conquest of Hispania. In the battle Roderic probably lost his life, along with many members of the Visigothic nobility, opening the way for the capture of Visigothic capital of Toledo.


http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2475607

Hope all the exclamations are meant to be as aggressive as they come off. :/
I've never told a 'come in peace' story

What you've shared.... that's an account of history?
Whose account?

Visigoth ancient buildings not being knocked over could say to me that other things were 'probable'.

Did the Visigoths 'invade' anyone to get that land?
How did that all actually happen?
Perhaps they never got a chance to record their telling or it?
Or it was burned like much of the writings left by Muslims in Spain?

Are these Visigoths and 'better' than those murderous, invading Muslims?
What's the value in pinning something on one culture and not another?

There is a lot we don't know because of the way the victors have recorded or rewritten history.

My 'story' is no different than any other, history often tends to change and morph into what is best for posterity and nationalism.

I don't really care to argue this.

What I wanted to share was 'hey... there is a different history that brings some lesser known points to light, maybe you want to check this out' ..... Figuring people want to have a well rounded opinion of the 'factual' history we're presented with, or that it'd at least be useful to see another view of it before solidifying your response.

Kind regards,
SageTree

 

[kai]

Not sure what the 'question' was, as I was only replying to my opinion on the 'aggressive' comment in your post.

The 'door of Spain' is 7 miles off the coast of Morocco.... Why wouldn't they have sailed a boat across that little body of water?



Hope all the exclamations are meant to be as aggressive as they come off. :/
I've never told a 'come in peace' story

What you've shared.... that's an account of history?
Whose account?

Visigoth ancient buildings not being knocked over could say to me that other things were 'probable'.

Did the Visigoths 'invade' anyone to get that land?
How did that all actually happen?
Perhaps they never got a chance to record their telling or it?
Or it was burned like much of the writings left by Muslims in Spain?

Are these Visigoths and 'better' than those murderous, invading Muslims?
What's the value in pinning something on one culture and not another?

There is a lot we don't know because of the way the victors have recorded or rewritten history.

My 'story' is no different than any other, history often tends to change and morph into what is best for posterity and nationalism.

I don't really care to argue this.

What I wanted to share was 'hey... there is a different history that brings some lesser known points to light, maybe you want to check this out' ..... Figuring people want to have a well rounded opinion of the 'factual' history we're presented with, or

that it'd at least be useful to see another view of it before solidifying your response.

Kind regards,
SageTree

Thanks but i have seen many responses when asking questions on the Muslim Conquest of Spain and the "they came in Peace " or "they were invited" are a couple that are indeed a different history as seen from the Islamic side anyway. I have checked it out ,and its a little too far fetched for me.

 

[SageTree]

I have checked it out ,and its a little too far fetched for me.

Thanks for your kind and calm response. Honestly it's refreshing around here and what makes it hard for me to want to stay/be here more often.

When you say you checked it out, do you mean the documentary or the 'peaceable argument'?

:namaste
SageTree

 

[kai]

Thanks for your kind and calm response. Honestly it's refreshing around here and what makes it hard for me to want to stay/be here more often.

When you say you checked it out, do you mean the documentary or the 'peaceable argument'?

:namaste
SageTree

Both, i watched the documentary and i have looked into AL Andalus on several occasions theres a thread or two around here somewhere.

And dont take my punctuation too seriously!!!! my education wasn't the best.lol

I do like Bettany Hughes style.

 

[SageTree]

Cheers then
As long as we're talking, it's all good.

 

[kai]

Cheers then
As long as we're talking, it's all good.

yep its all good

 

[Vendetta]

Not sure what the 'question' was, as I was only replying to my opinion on the 'aggressive' comment in your post.

The 'door of Spain' is 7 miles off the coast of Morocco.... Why wouldn't they have sailed a boat across that little body of water?



Hope all the exclamations are meant to be as aggressive as they come off. :/
I've never told a 'come in peace' story

What you've shared.... that's an account of history?
Whose account?

Visigoth ancient buildings not being knocked over could say to me that other things were 'probable'.

Did the Visigoths 'invade' anyone to get that land?
How did that all actually happen?
Perhaps they never got a chance to record their telling or it?
Or it was burned like much of the writings left by Muslims in Spain?

Are these Visigoths and 'better' than those murderous, invading Muslims?
What's the value in pinning something on one culture and not another?

There is a lot we don't know because of the way the victors have recorded or rewritten history.

My 'story' is no different than any other, history often tends to change and morph into what is best for posterity and nationalism.

I don't really care to argue this.

What I wanted to share was 'hey... there is a different history that brings some lesser known points to light, maybe you want to check this out' ..... Figuring people want to have a well rounded opinion of the 'factual' history we're presented with, or that it'd at least be useful to see another view of it before solidifying your response.

Kind regards,
SageTree

My post wasn't aggressive at all, stop being sensitive

 

[SageTree]

My post wasn't aggressive at all, stop being sensitive

No my Friend. I was using the word 'aggressive' as my talking point, and NEVER said anything about YOU being aggressive in your post. The comments to you stopped at the new person I quoted....I'm talking to Kain..... is that clear enough?

Who is being sensitive at this point?

This is the post I was referring to as addressing the word.....

I agree. If jihad is not an aggressive ideology, why did the Almohad dynasty occupy Southern Spain which was originally a Christian Empire?


Sorry if that got complicated for you.

This is how the conversation went in my eyes:

I agree. If jihad is not an aggressive ideology, why did the Almohad dynasty occupy Southern Spain which was originally a Christian Empire?

A humble suggestion:

When the Moors Ruled in Europe


In the early to mid 700s the Muslims came to Spain, and something interesting this documentary talks about is that the digs they've done on Visagoth ruins don't show signs of conquering or destruction, but rather it's postulated that they welcomed them as a solidifying agent.


With all due respect to what you know, I feel this might be a pretty interesting watch for you both.
The victor gets to write history, which the Christian eventually were in Spain... but ruins are empirical evidence that doesn't lie or have ego to protect.

:namaste
SageTree

Only reason why they were welcomed because Europe was already in disaray. With Feudal Lords and the population dwindling due to disease and injustice an outside invader is welcomed. But again that doesn't answer the question. Despite what Europe was going through what is an army doing at the doorbof Spain uninvited? Yes southern Spain became a global center for intellectual dialogue. However, intellectuals like Moses Maimonides and Averroes were eventually ostracized in Almohad dynasty.

Not sure what the 'question' was, as I was only replying to my opinion on the 'aggressive' comment in your post.

The 'door of Spain' is 7 miles off the coast of Morocco.... Why wouldn't they have sailed a boat across that little body of water?

My post wasn't aggressive at all, stop being sensitive

Then this reply above....

 

[Wombat]

Did the Visigoths 'invade' anyone to get that land?
How did that all actually happen?
Perhaps they never got a chance to record their telling or it?
Or it was burned like much of the writings left by Muslims in Spain?

Thus my original suggestion- "Push, counter push, push, counter push...."

And I did not mean to imply every "push" is military....much is economic/trade and culture.

Are these Visigoths and 'better' than those murderous, invading Muslims?
What's the value in pinning something on one culture and not another?

Sounds like the same point being made in-
"
Who pushed first?..........always... the 'other guy'.

Everbody took the clear and explicit- "Thou shalt not kill" and turned it into "Die Heritic/Infidel!...Die!".........perhaps that's why God is obliged to keep sending the same Golden Rule message.....untill we grow up and it sinks in."

What I wanted to share was 'hey... there is a different history that brings some lesser known points to light, maybe you want to check this out' ..... Figuring people want to have a well rounded opinion of the 'factual' history we're presented with, or that it'd at least be useful to see another view of it before solidifying your response.

Apreciated....have seen the Vid you linked to before...nice to know it's online.

bringing "some lesser known points to light".....from Eschers visit to Cordoba we get-

Art and culture- push and counter push