$100 million Muslim center planned 2 blocks from Ground Zero.

[Smoke]

I'm opposed to the mosque at Ground Zero!

First off, it's not at Ground Zero. It's a couple blocks away. I used to work a block away from the site of the proposed mosque, and I think people who claim the building is historically significant are really reaching. The whole area was damaged in 9/11. The building I used to work in was damaged, and my former co-workers had to move uptown for months while it was repaired. The site of the proposed mosque was also damaged, and has stood vacant since 2001. It's an eyesore. And it wasn't all that to start with.

The Muslims are proposing a community center as well as a mosque. The community center would be a good thing for the financial district. Businesses down there have been hurting since 2001; remember, even the survivors went away. Jobs were relocated away from the area of the World Trade Center, and most of them haven't come back. If you're selling gyros or pizza down there, that's a lot of lost business.

Also, Cordoba House is proposing that it get more involved with the larger community. They're envisioning a Muslim community that isn't just an alien community within American society, but is fully integrated with American society. They want to engage with their non-Muslim neighbors, as neighbors. How can that be a bad thing?

Nevertheless, I thought the mosque was a bad idea because I knew what kind of reaction there'd be. But if they're willing to tough it out, more power to them. New York has lost a lot of what made it special. Between the effects of Giuliani and 9/11, it makes me sad to visit. But it's still the greatest city in the world. It's survived a hell of a lot worse than a mosque on Park Place. And I think this mosque/community center can be part of the rebuilding of New York's spirit, or at least I think Cordoba House should be admired for trying. If it were me, I'd have built somewhere else rather than go through all this, but I guess it's good that everybody isn't like me.

 

[Magic Man]

I'm opposed to the mosque at Ground Zero!

Putting a mosque at Ground Zero is almost like putting a "German Cultural Museum and Bratwurst Shop" at Auschwitz. Not the same, because 9/11, as bad as it was, was nowhere near the scale of the Holocaust.

I guarantee you'll find German restaurants and shops in Poland and near Auschwitz. However, that's a horrible example considering most people don't continue to blame Germans for the Holocaust. As we've seen, many, many people continue to blame all Muslims for 9/11, despite the fact that only a small group of people who happen to be Muslim did the deed, and the great majority of Muslims condemn the actions as much as any non-Muslims.

 

[Smoke]

I guarantee you'll find German restaurants and shops in Poland and near Auschwitz. However, that's a horrible example considering most people don't continue to blame Germans for the Holocaust. As we've seen, many, many people continue to blame all Muslims for 9/11, despite the fact that only a small group of people who happen to be Muslim did the deed, and the great majority of Muslims condemn the actions as much as any non-Muslims.

I imagine I hate Islam about as much as anybody, but we're all going to have to learn to live together. Isn't that what so many of us hate about Islam in the first place, that so many Muslims are intolerant, bigoted and narrow-minded? So I think it stands to reason that Muslims who are not like that should be encouraged and befriended. In real life, I've rarely had any trouble with Muslims, except for Saudi Arabians, who tend to rub me the wrong way for some reason. Muslims as such are not the enemy.

Also, in the U.S. about a third of Muslims are African-American. They're as American as anybody else. And our immigrant Muslim community isn't like the parallel communities in some European countries seem to be, either. There are, to be sure, some nasty, dangerous types, but that's true among Christians in the U.S., too, and if they were building a church and community center two blocks from Ground Zero it would be hailed as a positive thing. What's the difference?

The people who died on 9/11 were a cross-section of America. They weren't all White Anglo-Saxon Protestants. They included Muslims and Jews and African-Americans and Hispanics and gay people and immigrants. No group owns 9/11; no group is excluded from 9/11.

As Ben Franklin said in a vastly different context, We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.

That people would take 9/11 -- a moment of hatred, bigotry, violence, and unforgivable demonization of one's neighbor -- and use it as an excuse for more hatred, bigotry, and demonization is disgusting and very nearly unforgivable in itself.

But I knew it would happen; we all knew it would happen. Our country is in far greater danger from within than from without. If Americans can't live with each other, can't respect and value our own freedoms, then the hell with it. If we lose everything that's good about America, what's left to protect?

 

[dust1n]

I'm honestly awed by how many people would show up to protest a non-issue.

Yet we can't even get people out on the streets to protest war.

 

[Magic Man]

That people would take 9/11 -- a moment of hatred, bigotry, violence, and unforgivable demonization of one's neighbor -- and use it as an excuse for more hatred, bigotry, and demonization is disgusting and very nearly unforgivable in itself.

Exactly. This is why I love the idea of building this mosque/Islamic center.

But I knew it would happen; we all knew it would happen.

Oh, of course, but that's the whole reason for the building in the first place. If something like this wasn't likely to happen, then they wouldn't feel the need to build and prominently display themselves as "good Muslims".

 

[tumbleweed41]

I'm honestly awed by how many people would show up to protest a non-issue.

Yet we can't even get people out on the streets to protest war.

Power to the Peaceful!!

 

[YmirGF]

But I knew it would happen; we all knew it would happen. Our country is in far greater danger from within than from without. If Americans can't live with each other, can't respect and value our own freedoms, then the hell with it. If we lose everything that's good about America, what's left to protect?

I've been looking for a reason to post this video in this thread, and this certainly seems to be a good springboard. What could go wrong with this whole ludicrous idea. Hmmm. Now there's a question, eh? PS: This is not directed at you personally, Bill. You're eloquent post simply serves as a suitable segue.

Anyways this video sums up the way I feel.

[youtube]5iDMl_riSfw[/youtube]
YouTube - Nine Inch Nails - Head Like A Hole (BYIT)

"Bow down before the one you serve.
You're going to get what you deserve.
Bow down before the one you serve.
You're going to get what you deserve.
You know who you are."

​

 

[kiwimac]

"...ki te tuohu koe, me he maunga teitei..." "If you must bow down, let it be to a lofty mountain"