12 theories why creation is true.

[Breathe]

And in either place they can make a mess. So much for Intelligent Design.

I'll have to trust you on that one. :biglaugh:

 

[Agnostic75]

The Biblical year is 5801 after creation proving carbon dating methology totally messed up.

Roger Wiens is a Christian, and has a Ph.D. in physics, and a minor in geology. He has worked for Caltech's Division of Geological & Planetary Sciences, and is presently employed in the Space & Atmospheric Sciences Group at the Los Alamos National Laboratory.

Consider the following:

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/resources/Wiens.html

Radiometric dating--the process of determining the age of rocks from the decay of their radioactive elements--has been in widespread use for over half a century. There are over forty such techniques, each using a different radioactive element or a different way of measuring them. It has become increasingly clear that these radiometric dating techniques agree with each other and as a whole, present a coherent picture in which the Earth was created a very long time ago. Further evidence comes from the complete agreement between radiometric dates and other dating methods such as counting tree rings or glacier ice core layers. Many Christians have been led to distrust radiometric dating and are completely unaware of the great number of laboratory measurements that have shown these methods to be consistent. Many are also unaware that Bible-believing Christians are among those actively involved in radiometric dating.

This paper describes in relatively simple terms how a number of the dating techniques work, how accurately the half-lives of the radioactive elements and the rock dates themselves are known, and how dates are checked with one another. In the process the paper refutes a number of misconceptions prevalent among Christians today. This paper is available on the web via the American Scientific Affiliation and related sites to promote greater understanding and wisdom on this issue, particularly within the Christian community.

The article is long, and often complex, even though Dr. Wiens said that "this paper describes in relatively simple terms how a number of the dating techniques work." The paper is relatively simple for him, but not for laymen. Would you like to critique the article, and state why you believe that Dr. Wiens is wrong?

Do you have an excellent scientific understanding of physics?

Would you like to critique Ken Miller's article on the flagellum, intelligent design, and irreducible complexity at http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/design2/article.html?

Do you believe that a global flood occurred?

 

[Breathe]

[youtube]dpqxSBclqWs[/youtube]
Japanese Banana Commercial - YouTube

 

[Big_TJ]

All together make up Earth which is a fallen Angel that fell with Adam and Eve and that Angel is called Semjaza, when you poop the Devil eats the poop as his punishment for sinning as his punishment was to eat poop all the days of his life. He used to be able to posses his Children but his children were all destroyed and he was sent to his prison of outerspace, Satan has 7 heads and 10 crowns and the name of his crowns are Sun, Moon, Earth, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune.

These are all my theories and I came up with them all by reading the Bible and Enoch books.

Question: What were you smoking when you came up with this list? I want some; I need to ignore reality every once in a while too!!!

 

[Secret Chief]

I really can't tell: is this a ppisss take?

Why stop at 12? A theory is just that, a theory. Without evidence and peer review it remains no more.

Still, I am currently sober; maybe it will seem sensible on another occasion.

 

[Sculelos]

Consider the following:

Radiometric Dating
Do you have an excellent scientific understanding of physics?

Would you like to critique Ken Miller's article on the flagellum, intelligent design, and irreducible complexity at The Flagellum Unspun?

Do you believe that a global flood occurred?

I'll answer the radiometric dating one in a followup post as my post is too long.

I do believe the Global Flood occurred in-fact I have evidence that it was not only Global but it was universal is that something you would like to see evidence for?

As for Design consider this However it is long!

THIRTY-SIX BRISTLES

Flies--to almost anyone but a geneticist--are merely one of nature’s pests. * But to geneticists (biologists who deal with heredity and variation among related organisms) they are extremely important: especially the fly Drosophila. There are at least a thousand species of this fly, and, because it produces a new generation every twelve days, it is the ideal animal for geneticists to use in the study of hereditary characteristics. Thousands of pages have been written about Drosophila, and its critical importance to genetics can be seen from this typical remark from a book called Genetics and Heredity:

Drosophila is now used in laboratories all over the world and from certain points

of view one can say that the whole of modern genetics and the science of heredity

are due to it....

[*Flies are pestiferous. There is no arguing that point. Yet they perform very specialized and very necessary functions. They help carry out pollination functions in certain flowering plants (as we saw in the section on "Pollination"). And, so fantastically interdependent are "nature’s" millions of aspects that--according to Eiseley--man could not live without flowers. So the fly’s role in this area alone is no minor one. Then, of course, flies are busily occupied with helping to dispose of tens of thousands of tons of animal and human waste that reappears every day. In addition to this, one can imagine that there are tons upon tons of animals and fruits that die every day and are partly removed by flies. Some species of the fly Drosophila are so specialized in their function that they eat only injured and rotting fruit and do not bother uninjured fruit. (Think about that for a minute!)]

More up-to-date books by different authors still stress heavily the importance of Drosophila. It’s a Biggie where any discussion of genetics is concerned, and, since genetics is about heredity and evolution cannot escape matters relating to heredity, the importance of Drosophila whenever evolution is discussed is difficult to exaggerate.

We wish to stress that importance here and now, because we intend to show that the work of geneticists on this humble animal has given the most concrete proof that mutations--the life’s breath of evolutionary theory--can never account for evolution.

Let us begin with an overview of the conclusions of thousands of pages and tens of thousands of hours that science has devoted to studying mutations and their effects on the fruit fly, Drosophila melanogaster.

Keep in mind first what has already been mentioned about Drosophila producing a new generation every twelve days. This makes it possible for scientists to study several hundred successive generations which would correspond to fifty or a hundred or more centuries of human life. Armed with this knowledge, T. H. Morgan and his collaborators, Bridges, Sturtevant, and Muller obtained a lot of jars, some yeast and bananas, and a few hundred thousand specimens of Drosophila and went to work.

The intention was to observe and catalogue information about mutations. One difficulty about mutations, as we have already noted, is that they are very infrequent, and then of the ones that do occur, all are harmful and many lead to the early death of the mutant or its descendants. Two other characteristics of mutations that make them hard to study are that there is no way of knowing when one is going to occur, and that most that do occur, according to geneticists, are unnoticeable because their effects are hidden or are so slight that they are invisible. (Surely this is pure nonsense. If one can’t see a mutation or in some way detect it--if it is invisible--then how can anybody say it exists at all?!)

In any case, Morgan published in 1915 his Mechanics of Mendelian Heredity which laid the foundations for the arrangement of genes in the chromosomes, and he became the leader of what is known as "the Morgan school" which is known for this kind of work in connection with evolution theory.

The upshot of all this was that:

Among hundreds of thousands of flies, it was possible to detect, over a period of several

years, more than 400 mutations.

Though evolution was supposed to be proven by this Herculean effort, it failed miserably and totally, for:..

Out of the 400 mutations that have been provided by Drosophila melanogaster, there is not

one that can be called a new species. It does not seem, therefore, that the central problem

of evolution can be solved by mutations....

Given the fact that scientists generally agree that evolution without mutations is about as possible as an omelet without eggs, this is a very important finding.

But evolutionists do not give up so readily, and there is more to report on their efforts to force old Drosophola melanogaster to provide the evidence for evolution they are seeking.

Since the big problem that Morgan and his helpers had faced was the scarcity of mutations, it was a major breakthrough when a way was discovered to increase the mutation rate tremendously. From Principles of Genetics we learn that:

H. J. Muller demonstrated in 1927 that the mutation rate of Drosophila melanogaster

could be markedly increased by treating the flies with X-rays. Expression of induced

mutations seemed to be the same as those of comparable mutations that occurred

spontaneously, but the frequency was increased as much as 150-fold. 4

Now, at last, it was possible to really go to work on the hapless fruit-fly! Whereas, scientists had labored manfully to bring on artificial mutations by extreme variations of heat and cold and light and darkness (all with complete lack of success), they now bombarded the stubborn rascals with X-rays and got their mutations.

Thus stocked with jars of mutant flies, scientists set about to change them into something besides flies, and thereby demonstrate that animals could indeed have changed from amoebas to fish to amphibians to reptiles, to birds to mammals, and finally to Sergi Rachmaninoff.

(The reader may protest that the average "evolving" fly or lizard or bat out of the past never had the benefit of all this sophisticated effort to help him/her along, and would therefore have hardly been able to produce all those mutations in the first place. But the reader would only be exhibiting a stubbornness that seems to afflict non-evolutionists. After all, if things didn’t evolve, one would only be left with the reality that they were created; and that just can’t be! So say the evolutionary scientists....)

So they X-rayed the daylights out of ole Drosophila melanogaster. They changed the eye color from pink to white to red and back to the original black again. They changed the wings this way and that. They worked on the salivary glands. They increased and decreased the number of bristles. They strained and sweated for thousands of hours to change Drosophila into something else.

What happened? Two things: One, the mutant flies either died over a period of generations, or, they came back to their original, normal conditions!! They could not be changed!! Drosophila melanogaster, frozen, steamed, blinded by light and darkness, and fried with X-rays, remained Drosophila melanogaster.

The case of the 36 bristles will serve as a specific example:

Among its other features, Drosophila melanogaster has 36 bristles on its body. Macbeth gives the gist of further extensive work done on the fruit fly’s bristles by Ernst Mayr in 1948:

Two experiments were run, one for decrease in the number of bristles, which

averaged 36 in the starting stock. Selection for decrease was able, after thirty

generations, to lower this average to 25 bristles, but then the line became sterile

and died out. A mass low line...was started with 32 bristles and remained nearly

stable for ninety-five generations. All attempts to derive from this line others with

lower bristle numbers failed because the lines died out.... In the high line, progress

was at first rapid and steady. In twenty generations the average rose from 36 to 56.

At this stage sterility became severe.... Average bristle number fell sharply and was

down to 39 in five generations.

Amazing isn’t it? The same thing happens to all breeding experiments, of course, no matter what the animal or plant. Darwin got the same results exactly on a smaller scale after he spent years working with pigeons. There is just so much variability in any animal (or plant), and when it is pressed beyond that limit by nature or by man it becomes sterile or dies. In either case, obviously, the kinds of change demanded by evolution theory are just as effectively stopped.

A day of reckoning is at hand for the Theory of Evolution. And amongst the most convincing witnesses to testify against the theory will be one of the most humble, yet most triumphant reminders of God’s immutable laws, namely, Drosophila melanogaster...with its bristles intact.

 

[Windwalker]

It hurts my mind. I need a drink.

Seriously, you should team up with Kent Hovind and go on a Creationist preaching crusade with him. I'm sure it will help him convince even more of the truth of his message. The creationist museum would benefit as well adding a dragon from a plant display right next to Jesus riding on a velociraptor while playing a game-boy. I've got to say, it flows man, it flows.

 

[Me Myself]

1. The Bible is true, this hinges on the idea that the Bible is fact and everything in the Bible that can be observed is historically and factually correct.

2. The Earth is not moving or rotating but the Air including outerspace air is moving around us.

3. The Sky and Earth is the World and the World is the Universe.

4. The Biblical year is 5801 after creation proving carbon dating methology totally messed up.

5. The World at one point in time used to be two pyramids back to back before it started curving and collapsed on itself. The top pyramid was the heavens and the bottom pyramid was the heavens, the middle was and is the Earth and people live on both sides.

6. If somethings not a plant, animal or human it is an angel.

7. Earth has 7 layers, 1 air, 1 ground, 1 water, 1 fire, 1 lightnings, 1 crystals, all combined form Earth.

8. Time is moving backwards slowly and is a figment of our imaginations, basically we have already died and are having our life played back in slow motion. 986 years to us is 1 day to God.

9. The Book of Enoch is the condensed 76 page version of the Whole Bible.

10. Plants can spawn insects and reptiles: Noah probably only took warmblooded animals with him and small rats and stuff on the Ark because all cold blooded insects and reptilles can be spawned by plants. (Spontanius mutation)

11. Dragons are hybrid animals that are formed by plant viruses that combine creatures together, this is centuars or sphinx or minitaurs or Murmaids or Giant Lions with wings!

12. Mankind was not created as Humans but as consious Energy that could shapeshift and think about thinking. God told mankind they could shift into any form except for human form because the day they changed into it they would be trapped as humans until the day they died and they would learn what good and evil and pain and suffering and pleasure and Love was.

Tell me what you guys thing about these.

13. The 13 dimensional realms of existence each vibrate at a fixed harmonic frequency which correlates to one of the 13 states of ethereal energy. These vibrational frequencies create complex wave interactions which form the illusions of time, space, energy, movement, and bacon.

14. The tetha waves that cause Black holes can be obtained by triangulating human sin with the lust induced earthquakes near the arabic world. Given enough destilation of sound through light by the color pink you`ll be able to give numeric value to it, and the number is exactly the number of pages in the bible (in it`s original language) plus the number of verses in the bible, if you substract the inches of the pages and multiply them by a random number (really, any number. It must be seven though)

15. Aliens are really demons that got lost trying to fly backwards into the aluminiun field of the centre of the world God forsaw this so this explains the bermuda triangle.

 

[Sculelos]

Radio-Metric Dating cannot be proven reliable unless you know the density of the soil in all aspects.

Since Earth at one point in time had about 2.5 times more oxygen density in the Air this would screw Each and every form of dating possible, let me demonstrate.

Since their was more Oxygen in the Air Carbon would decompose faster, with less Carbon energy being absorbed by the Air, less Carbon would be absorbed by Plants and less Carbon being absorbed by plants would mean less Carbon absorbed in Animals that ate plants, or in Animals that ate animals that ate plants.

Object A is in reality 4,145 Years Old, Object A started with 24x less Carbon in it's bones when it died but we assume it had ratios almost exactly the same to today's environment.

Saying that we are starting on a flawed assumption

This is a simple demonstration on how screwed our math gets when we start with the wrong assumptions, like not accounting for the fact that Oxygen was 2.5 times as dense.

1: 4,145 Years - 1x Oxidation Force
2: 16,580 -
3: 66,320
4: 265,280 - 2x Oxidation Force
5: 1,061,120
6: 4,244,480
7: 16,977,920
8: 67,911,680 - 2.5x Oxidation Force

So in this example our 4,145 year old Fossil aged from 4,145 years to almost 68 Million Years, big difference I would say!

Note that all Scientist say a huge amount of Fossils from Dinosaurs date about 65 Million years old, this is because the Global Flood was 4,145 years ago and Oxigen levels were 2.5x as high and we know they were this much higher because human life-span was also effected accordingly to faster radiometric decay aka your body could live forever but radiation is slowly killing you.

969 Years is the maximum number of years anyone recorded lived.

Applying the same logic as before but in reverse with known Years.

969 Years - 2.5x Oxidation level
242 Years - 2.0x Oxidation level
60 Years - 1.0 Oxidation level

So it's clear to me that Oxygen pressure slows down aging dramatically and also messed with any age test we measure significantly however knowing what I know it's easy to see how this works on non-living matter like Rock as we have to assume that rock has been absorbing energy from the day it formed into rock.

Earth's Radiometric Age: 4.54 Billion Years

Let's Adjust for Oxidation out put:

4.54 Billion Age of Earth cut in half for average oxygen level.

2.27 Billion Age of Earth Radiometric Half-Life Age.

Adjust for Oxidation:

4.54 Billion - 0x Oxidation
17.6 Million - .25x Oxidation
68 Thousand - 1x Oxidation
17,318 Years - 2.0 Oxidation
4,328 Years - 2.5x Oxidation

So Final Results adjusted for real radiometric indicators Approximate with at least 95% accuracy:

Earth's Age: 4,328 Years
Death of Most Fossilized Dinosaurs: 4,328 Years

 

[McBell]

Tell me what you guys thing about these.

Seriously, I hope this was supposed to be in the jokes section.

 

[Sunstone]

Radio-Metric Dating cannot be proven reliable unless you know the density of the soil in all aspects.

Since Earth at one point in time had about 2.5 times more oxygen density in the Air this would screw Each and every form of dating possible, let me demonstrate.

Since their was more Oxygen in the Air Carbon would decompose faster, with less Carbon energy being absorbed by the Air, less Carbon would be absorbed by Plants and less Carbon being absorbed by plants would mean less Carbon absorbed in Animals that ate plants, or in Animals that ate animals that ate plants.

Object A is in reality 4,145 Years Old, Object A started with 24x less Carbon in it's bones when it died but we assume it had ratios almost exactly the same to today's environment.

Saying that we are starting on a flawed assumption

This is a simple demonstration on how screwed our math gets when we start with the wrong assumptions, like not accounting for the fact that Oxygen was 2.5 times as dense.

1: 4,145 Years - 1x Oxidation Force
2: 16,580 -
3: 66,320
4: 265,280 - 2x Oxidation Force
5: 1,061,120
6: 4,244,480
7: 16,977,920
8: 67,911,680 - 2.5x Oxidation Force

So in this example our 4,145 year old Fossil aged from 4,145 years to almost 68 Million Years, big difference I would say!

Note that all Scientist say a huge amount of Fossils from Dinosaurs date about 65 Million years old, this is because the Global Flood was 4,145 years ago and Oxigen levels were 2.5x as high and we know they were this much higher because human life-span was also effected accordingly to faster radiometric decay aka your body could live forever but radiation is slowly killing you.

969 Years is the maximum number of years anyone recorded lived.

Applying the same logic as before but in reverse with known Years.

969 Years - 2.5x Oxidation level
242 Years - 2.0x Oxidation level
60 Years - 1.0 Oxidation level

So it's clear to me that Oxygen pressure slows down aging dramatically and also messed with any age test we measure significantly however knowing what I know it's easy to see how this works on non-living matter like Rock as we have to assume that rock has been absorbing energy from the day it formed into rock.

Earth's Radiometric Age: 4.54 Billion Years

Let's Adjust for Oxidation out put:

4.54 Billion Age of Earth cut in half for average oxygen level.

2.27 Billion Age of Earth Radiometric Half-Life Age.

Adjust for Oxidation:

4.54 Billion - 0x Oxidation
17.6 Million - .25x Oxidation
68 Thousand - 1x Oxidation
17,318 Years - 2.0 Oxidation
4,328 Years - 2.5x Oxidation

So Final Results adjusted for real radiometric indicators Approximate with at least 95% accuracy:

Earth's Age: 4,328 Years
Death of Most Fossilized Dinosaurs: 4,328 Years

Gee! Youz smarters than 50,000 scientists! Willz youz haz my love child?

 

[Windwalker]

This is not a pipe.

 

[Jainarayan]

That begs the question of how loaded does one need to be before this list makes sense?

There's not enough liquor in the galaxy.

 

[Windwalker]

There's not enough liquor in the galaxy.

Jupiter is made of whiskey gas. It's a start.

 

[Jainarayan]

All together make up Earth which is a fallen Angel that fell with Adam and Eve and that Angel is called Semjaza, when you poop the Devil eats the poop as his punishment for sinning as his punishment was to eat poop all the days of his life. He used to be able to posses his Children but his children were all destroyed and he was sent to his prison of outerspace, Satan has 7 heads and 10 crowns and the name of his crowns are Sun, Moon, Earth, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune.

These are all my theories and I came up with them all by reading the Bible and Enoch books.

Some days I fear for our species's survival. Today is one of them.

 

[SheikhHorusFromTheSky]

Some days I fear for our species's survival. Today is one of them.

I know what you mean, dude. I most definitely know what you mean.

 

[Jainarayan]

I'll have to trust you on that one. :biglaugh:

I'd never steer you wrong.

 

[adi2d]

Some days I fear for our species's survival. Today is one of them.

Fear not my friend. Its just freaky friday. I'm sure most poster aren't typing with a straight face.

 

[Jainarayan]

Still, I am currently sober; maybe it will seem sensible on another occasion.

Nah, I was stoned out of my mind on painkillers after back and shoulder surgery and still knew reality from fantasy... white rabbits and talking caterpillars notwithstanding.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

1. Problematic in that at least some components have been directly observed to be false perhaps even fraudulent.

2. Umm okay... well I suppose it is possible to map all the observed movement of the universe in relation to Earth, there seems to be no logical reason to do so, but certainly it is possible to interpret data in that way; irrational but possible.

3. I have no idea how the words you have written are intended to be combined in order to form a semblence of comprehensible concepts.

4. I will take you at your word for the biblical year; of course that makes things that predate 'creation' including entire civilisations rather... problematic for that particular creation account.

5. ... I... see... I prefer ziggurats myself. More classy.

6. I just ate a croissant-angel! It tasted gooooood.

7. Eh? So why is lightning and water in the sky? Why is water on top of and beneath the ground? why are crystals within the ground? I take it by fire you mean liquid rock?

8. I'ma go that way now.

9. Interesting how little resemblance it has, perhaps it lost a little something in the compression.

10. I hope you don't have any indoor plants (run away from herbs and fruit and veggies!) they might turn into a boa-constrictor.

11. Interesting! So umm where are they all?

12. An interesting thought experiment (no pun intended); amusing how it always seems to come down to 'original sin'

13. Bacon is no illusion - you are sooooo going to burn in the deepest hottest depths of the eternal deep frier (devoid of goodies).

14. Is seven important for some reason?

15. Actually I wonder if we ever DO run into an alien civilisation if the religious among us will declare them soulless abominations and try to get us to go to war with them x.x



Sculelos there is a reason Radio-Metric Dating is not used for attempting to date hetrogenous materials, because the sampling used would highly influence the dating (this is particularly marked near volcanoes and some other geographical formations since they involve the possibility of having vastly different aged materials incorporated into the same area which is to be sampled - making obtaining a representative sample far more difficult). That is why alternative dating systems are used - there are literally scores of different dating systems, radiometric is among the most well known but hardly the only one - strangely enough however they provide consistent data.