• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

3 questions for affiliated?

Valor

Active Member
Mackinnon, how long have you been affiliated with the ToS? Why did you decide to join, what or how has it benifited you? What are your goals and aims you set forth behind the walls of the Temple.

Thank you, Valor.

P.s. you may personal message me the reply if you wish. I only say this because i wouldn't want you to answer if the reply was intended to" please" (if you will) other members of the temple... this is saying that i wouldn't want you to reply to other members of the tos, but rather to those who are not and will not be affiliated. Like myself...
 
Last edited:

MacKinnon

Member
Valor,

Firstly let me state I do not make it my business to tailor my answers to please anybody, affiliated members or not. I answer honestly from and about me, regardless of who may approve or disapprove. I wonder where you pick up the idea that I would have to answer in such a cautionary manner as you suggest?

Also, this thread is directed precisely at affiliated members of the Temple like myself. So I'm already answering non-affiliated members questions here, and from what I can tell so far I'm the only affiliated member doing so in this thread.

Now, lets get to those questions of yours.

I've been affiliated with the ToS for about 3 and a half years. I joined because I have always been pretty big on the idea of continuous professional development, and wanted to extend this outwith my profession to other aspects of my life. It was around 1999 or 2000 that I first became aware of the ToS, but at that time it was only through a rather scathing, and ill-informed criticism on alt.satanism or whatever that list was called, and also some less than complimentary information on the CoS website.

Admittedly, I was skeptical and didn't want to associate myself with what appeared to be a spinoff of the CoS, and especially not if there was so much bickering between the two organisations.

Between then and 2006 I carried on my life, earned a degree in human resource management and in the meanwhile between working in human resources between a couple of organisations, I was also an avid online gamer. And I played regularly with a guy who had been a member of the ToS back in the early 2000s. We talked for a couple of years, and he was able to ascertain from my interests and how I talked about them that the LHP might be something to look into. After some digging about, I found the Belanone FAQ which I linked to above and talked to my friend about that, and it was then that he said he was a member in the past and said it would be good to join.

So that prompted an email to the executive director, a lot of dialogue between us and I met with a couple of members of the Temple in due course and my membership was approved. Within a few months I found a lot of stuff that is said of the ToS outside of it is inaccurate at best.

It has benefitted me in ways that I can speak of retroactively and continuously. When I first joined, I was a very pent up and dissatisfied individual. This is apparrent in many of my communications in the Temple in the first year or so, and over time I saw this and thought about what it was in my life that needed to change, and what about me needed to change. For a start, I had picked a university course that was particularly limiting to what kind of jobs I would be qualified to do. Very specialist subject, and also a subject I found through experience of working in that field that I actually really didn't like it. The problem then was that because of my degree, I appeared over-qualified for other roles that I wanted to try out, which added to the frustration. Some other things that I have resolved included my relationships with some friends, and some other people that really could only be described as psychic vampires, and a general disdain for my current environment and family issues.

In a working of Greate Black Magic last year, I moved far from where I live now and took the time to see how easy it was to say goodbye the baggage and people that I had previously used as an excuse to stay behind. I got work fairly quickly, and enjoyed a different culture and lifestyle than what I had been used to. Which naturally made me stick out like a sore thumb. Eventually after some consideration of options that I hadn't thought to look at before, an opportunity presented itself for me to return to where I am now, and some months later a complete change of career which I am enjoying very much.

With ToS affiliation, you don't merely get a shiny medallion and a subscription to a newsletter. You get access to a variety of very unique, and gifted individuals who have experience and expertise in a variety of fields. People who have overcome strife in their lives, and taken great risks and seen the benefits of doing so. We have artists, authors, musicians, historians, scientists, philosophers, crafts men, and so on and so on, and lets not forget these people are Black Magicians.

The ToS has no dogma. And this is exemplified by the incredibly diverse orders and elements that are set up within the Temple to approach Xeper in a host of different ways, catering to the interests and expertise of their members. There is no prescribed approach to Xeper, and lets face it there couldn't be.

The ToS is unique in that we have an extensive library of the works of members from the past 35 or so years, and this grows every day. New ways to collaborate with members spring up all the time, and unlike a lot of online LHP groups, we do meet face to face. We're an international organisation, and regularly have meetings all over, and it's in these face to face meetings that you can see the benefit of membership in each of the members, and through the highly-charged and often intense exchange of energy and ideas.

What are my goals and aims?

To develop a magical system that makes use of my talents and interests. Mainly at the moment those include developing as a musician, which through the ToS I have certainly been doing well with as there are musicians within that I regularly collaborate with, and gain insight on technique, theory and industry related info. I'm also studying the Ogham writing system of Gaelic Ireland and Scotland, and to that end I am also learning Scots Gaelic. I'm also learning to play Scots Trad music on the fiddle, which ties into the Gaelic current I'm working with.

Would I have considered doing any of that without ToS membership? Maybe some of it. But I don't think I would nearly be as motivated to do so as I am now, because I would probably not have worked through some of the things I mentioned earlier, and certainly wouldn't have access to the same level of materials that I use now, or encouragement and feedback.

I think it's awesome that there are people out there who have found Xeper to be something of interest and a valuable pursuit and something to apply in their lives. What seems strange to me is why they wouldn't want to take advantage of what the Temple offers. But I don't make it my business to encourage people to join the ToS either, they should find it as others and myself have; Freely and of their own Will.
 

Valor

Active Member
Valor,

Firstly let me state I do not make it my business to tailor my answers to please anybody, affiliated members or not. I answer honestly from and about me, regardless of who may approve or disapprove. I wonder where you pick up the idea that I would have to answer in such a cautionary manner as you suggest?

I ask because it is not uncommon to tailor a reply in accordance to other peoples liking

Also, this thread is directed precisely at affiliated members of the Temple like myself. So I'm already answering non-affiliated members questions here, and from what I can tell so far I'm the only affiliated member doing so in this thread.

.No, your wrong. There have been responces by affiliated members an ex members. Excuse me if i inconvienanced you with my questions, seeing how im not a member, however, judging by your reply it seems that you've been waiting for someone to finally ask you. Lol

Now, lets get to those questions of yours.

I've been affiliated with the ToS for about 3 and a half years. I joined because I have always been pretty big on the idea of continuous professional development, and wanted to extend this outwith my profession to other aspects of my life. It was around 1999 or 2000 that I first became aware of the ToS, but at that time it was only through a rather scathing, and ill-informed criticism on alt.satanism or whatever that list was called, and also some less than complimentary information on the CoS website.

Admittedly, I was skeptical and didn't want to associate myself with what appeared to be a spinoff of the CoS, and especially not if there was so much bickering between the two organisations.

Note: while i was affiliated with the church of satan we never bothered to speak of the temple because it was considered counter productive and foolish to dwell on such petty topics.



Between then and 2006 I carried on my life, earned a degree in human resource management and in the meanwhile between working in human resources between a couple of organisations, I was also an avid online gamer. And I played regularly with a guy who had been a member of the ToS back in the early 2000s. We talked for a couple of years, and he was able to ascertain from my interests and how I talked about them that the LHP might be something to look into. After some digging about, I found the Belanone FAQ which I linked to above and talked to my friend about that, and it was then that he said he was a member in the past and said it would be good to join.

So that prompted an email to the executive director, a lot of dialogue between us and I met with a couple of members of the Temple in due course and my membership was approved. Within a few months I found a lot of stuff that is said of the ToS outside of it is inaccurate at best.

It has benefitted me in ways that I can speak of retroactively and continuously. When I first joined, I was a very pent up and dissatisfied individual. This is apparrent in many of my communications in the Temple in the first year or so, and over time I saw this and thought about what it was in my life that needed to change, and what about me needed to change. For a start, I had picked a university course that was particularly limiting to what kind of jobs I would be qualified to do. Very specialist subject, and also a subject I found through experience of working in that field that I actually really didn't like it. The problem then was that because of my degree, I appeared over-qualified for other roles that I wanted to try out, which added to the frustration. Some other things that I have resolved included my relationships with some friends, and some other people that really could only be described as psychic vampires, and a general disdain for my current environment and family issues.

In a working of Greate Black Magic last year, I moved far from where I live now and took the time to see how easy it was to say goodbye the baggage and people that I had previously used as an excuse to stay behind. I got work fairly quickly, and enjoyed a different culture and lifestyle than what I had been used to. Which naturally made me stick out like a sore thumb. Eventually after some consideration of options that I hadn't thought to look at before, an opportunity presented itself for me to return to where I am now, and some months later a complete change of career which I am enjoying very much.

With ToS affiliation, you don't merely get a shiny medallion and a subscription to a newsletter. You get access to a variety of very unique, and gifted individuals who have experience and expertise in a variety of fields. People who have overcome strife in their lives, and taken great risks and seen the benefits of doing so. We have artists, authors, musicians, historians, scientists, philosophers, crafts men, and so on and so on, and lets not forget these people are Black Magicians.

The ToS has no dogma. And this is exemplified by the incredibly diverse orders and elements that are set up within the Temple to approach Xeper in a host of different ways, catering to the interests and expertise of their members. There is no prescribed approach to Xeper, and lets face it there couldn't be.


The temple does dogma: 1, being and becoming are good. 2, being and becoming can best be squired by conscious, rationally-intuited means. 3, the temple of Set, if properly used and maintained, is among the best tools for acquiring being and becoming. However recently i've found many flaws in this. I also believe there is more dogma, but will not comment or bash the temple concerning this.

The ToS is unique in that we have an extensive library of the works of members from the past 35 or so years, and this grows every day. New ways to collaborate with members spring up all the time, and unlike a lot of online LHP groups, we do meet face to face. We're an international organisation, and regularly have meetings all over, and it's in these face to face meetings that you can see the benefit of membership in each of the members, and through the highly-charged and often intense exchange of energy and ideas.

yes, this common in many organizations. This is not indiginous to the temple


What are my goals and aims?

To develop a magical system that makes use of my talents and interests. Mainly at the moment those include developing as a musician, which through the ToS I have certainly been doing well with as there are musicians within that I regularly collaborate with, and gain insight on technique, theory and industry related info. I'm also studying the Ogham writing system of Gaelic Ireland and Scotland, and to that end I am also learning Scots Gaelic. I'm also learning to play Scots Trad music on the fiddle, which ties into the Gaelic current I'm working with.

Would I have considered doing any of that without ToS membership? Maybe some of it. But I don't think I would nearly be as motivated to do so as I am now, because I would probably not have worked through some of the things I mentioned earlier, and certainly wouldn't have access to the same level of materials that I use now, or encouragement and feedback.

I think it's awesome that there are people out there who have found Xeper to be something of interest and a valuable pursuit and something to apply in their lives. What seems strange to me is why they wouldn't want to take advan
tage of what the Temple offers. But I don't make it my business to encourage people to join the ToS either, they should find it as others and myself have; Freely and of their own Will.

PLEASE READ MY REPLIES IN RED ABOVE. (I am replying from my phone here, tough to function)


Lol... there are those that are not keen on how the temple of Set operarates, including myself. But again, im not about to comment on these flaws in an open forum. If you wish we can discuss this via pm.

Thank you for you're response.
 
Last edited:

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
I have a question about immortality. I guess I wonder where the proof is of it? As far as legacy, cool I get it and its fun to think that people will be talking about you when you’re gone, but is that immortality something you can partake of? Let’s say you leaving behind some kind of device, key or symbol that is “attached to you” that later generations will partake in, like let’s say Adramelek’s musical creations, how does this benefit you personally if you are dead and gone?

Hey aa nerut, good to hear from you.

The question of the immortality of the soul or whatever is a very complex one. I personally think it is a possibility given that one continues to perpetually Remanifest that which they Are. Is it probable? I don't, nor does anybody else know. But I will finaly know the true answer on the day my physical body expires. As far as my musical creations go, what benefit to me personally will it have when I'm dead and gone? Again, I really don't know, but at least it will be a certain aspect of Me that will continue to exist, rememberance perhaps?

And yes, the Earth itself will one day expire. But, hopefully, long before the Earth dies, humanity will have developed the scientific technology to where we are able to explore the cosmos and perhaps colonize upon other worlds in other solar systems. And I'm sure some will take the great works of Beethoven with them, perhaps there will be a few who will take my works with them as well, i.e. another aspect of remanifestation. Of course, discussions of death are all speculative and nothing more, nobody will know the True answer(s) about death until the day they die. All else is pure hypothosis, and in some cases superstition, especially when it comes to religion. All one can do is live this life to its fullest and strive towards complete Self-Actualization. Hence, the premise of the Setian philosophy of Xeper. After all, if there is such a thing as immortality of the psyche, if someone can't figure out what to do with themselves on a Sunday afternoon, what are they going to do with eternity?

Xeper em Ma'at.
/Adramelek\
 
Last edited:

Valor

Active Member
And yes, the Earth itself will one day expire. But, hopefully, long before the Earth dies, humanity will have devloped the scientific technology to where we are able to explore the cosmos and perhaps colonize upon other worlds in other solar system.

Xeper em Ma'at.
/Adramelek\

Will we be taking the oxygen with us? Lol.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
Code:
Will we be taking the oxygen with us? Lol.

Well, of course. But I'm sure there are other planets out there somewhere within our own galaxy that have a compatible atmosphere able to sustain human life. Or maybe, I've watched too many episodes of Star Trek.
 

Ahanit

Active Member
I also watched to much Star Trek, Star Wars, Bab5 and so on, so I think the Humans will make the Step to other planets long before the earth must die...

About knowing and believing of Immortality....

I can not be absolute sure, that there is a undying part of the Soul, but I know many people who belive it..

I know people remembering places they have never been bevore in the actual life. Remembering persons and Events they have not read about but which have proven taken place...

Only speaking for me there is enough evidence that Parts of Existance are Imortal, and able to remanifest again in a physical existence.

So what is written in Myths has a truth for me.

@mackinnon

Are you sure about no one else of ToS here ?? :camp:
 

MacKinnon

Member
[/quote]I ask because it is not uncommon to tailor a reply in accordance to other peoples liking[/quote]

I agree, however I wouldn't expect anybody on a LHP forum to do this.

No, your wrong. There have been responces by affiliated members an ex members. Excuse me if i inconvienanced you with my questions, seeing how im not a member, however, judging by your reply it seems that you've been waiting for someone to finally ask you. Lol


Yeah, I see now there is another affiliated member. My point wasn't that only affiliated members should be replying, or that responses by non affiliated members would be an inconvenience, but rather that the thread was started because somebody wanted to ask affiliated members questions anyway, so there would be no need to respond to you privately.

Note: while i was affiliated with the church of satan we never bothered to speak of the temple because it was considered counter productive and foolish to dwell on such petty topics.


I don't doubt it.

The temple does dogma: 1, being and becoming are good. 2, being and becoming can best be squired by conscious, rationally-intuited means. 3, the temple of Set, if properly used and maintained, is among the best tools for acquiring being and becoming. However recently i've found many flaws in this. I also believe there is more dogma, but will not comment or bash the temple concerning this.


You could disagree without bashing the temple if you like.

yes, this common in many organizations. This is not indiginous to the temple


But they don't have access to the materials or access to the body of work of members of the ToS.

Lol... there are those that are not keen on how the temple of Set operarates, including myself. But again, im not about to comment on these flaws in an open forum. If you wish we can discuss this via pm.

I'm interested in knowing how you could know so much of the ToS' flaws without having experienced what affiliation with the ToS is like.

 

Valor

Active Member
Mackinnon: I agree, however I wouldn't expect anybody on a LHP forum to do this.

Myself: unfortunately the error here is "not expecting", but this is a common mistake i'm guilty of as well.

Mackinnon: Yeah, I see now there is another affiliated member.

Myself: there were 4 total, including ex members.

Mackinnon: You could disagree without bashing the temple if you like.

Myself: and i have.

Mackinnon: But they don't have access to the materials or access to the body of work of members of the ToS.

Myself: may i ask how you know this to be true without being affiliated to the other orgs? Im not a member, never was a member... however, i have almost all of your revised literature and tablets.

Mackinnon: I'm interested in knowing how you could know so much of the ToS' flaws without having experienced what affiliation with the ToS is like.

Myself: Im sure you are, however my aim here is not to expose these flaws in the great possibility of exposing myself to hubris.
 
Last edited:

Valor

Active Member
Its curious to see that 90% of the time when questions are directly aimed toward affiliated members, often the tougher ones...the priesthood (admin, qualified spokesman) hardly ever chime in, but allow members who are newly adept speak for the Temple. This is not to say they are unqualified, but in the eyes of the Temple, they are just this...unqualified to speak for the Temple.

Im stating this because i would enjoy to hear what either sireal or Adams has to say about these unique questions, but unfortunately its hardly the case. But shouldn't it be?

Always, Valor.
 

MacKinnon

Member
may i ask how you know this to be true without being affiliated to the other orgs? Im not a member, never was a member... however, i have almost all of your revised literature and tablets.
An impressive boast indeed, even I've not bothered to round up every piece of literature made directly available to me. I can't imagine how you could hope to collect even a quarter as much indirectly through dishonest means, particularly since order/element/pylon etc materials are published fairly frequently within the ToS, let alone know exactly what constitutes as being "almost all" and "revised".

Im sure you are, however my aim here is not to expose these flaws in the great possibility of exposing myself to hubris.
Sounds like a lack of courage in your conviction. If you can't handle the possibility of having your ideas questioned and potentially refuted then it may be worth examining the legitmacy and adequacy of the information you have come to base your ideas on.
 

MacKinnon

Member
Its curious to see that 90% of the time when questions are directly aimed toward affiliated members, often the tougher ones...the priesthood (admin, qualified spokesman) hardly ever chime in, but allow members who are newly adept speak for the Temple. This is not to say they are unqualified, but in the eyes of the Temple, they are just this...unqualified to speak for the Temple.

Im stating this because i would enjoy to hear what either sireal or Adams has to say about these unique questions, but unfortunately its hardly the case. But shouldn't it be?

Always, Valor.

What is it about these specific questions that makes a response from Sireal or Adams more favorable than those given already, especially since the nature of these questions speaks to the individual affiliated members perspectives, rather than the Temple itself.

What is it about the replies to these questions that suggest the person was speaking for the Temple rather than giving their own perspective?
 

Valor

Active Member
An impressive boast indeed, even I've not bothered to round up every piece of literature made directly available to me. I can't imagine how you could hope to collect even a quarter as much indirectly through dishonest means, particularly since order/element/pylon etc materials are published fairly frequently within the ToS, let alone know exactly what constitutes as being "almost all" and "revised".

Sounds like a lack of courage in your conviction. If you can't handle the possibility of having your ideas questioned and potentially refuted then it may be worth examining the legitmacy and adequacy of the information you have come to base your ideas on.

I'm sensing a bit of malice in your replies here Mr. Mackinnon. Do not mistake my failure to initiate counter productive arguements for lack of courage dearest mackinnon. I hope you don't intend to lose your cool.

Anyhow, it would be refreshing to hear replies from ToS representitives, the priesthood?
 

MacKinnon

Member
No malice sir, just some mild concern that you would consider yourself so well informed and not have that perception of yourself challenged. I wouldn't consider that opportunity being counter productive by any stretch.

The priesthood may or may not respond. I would suggest that if you want a specific member of the priesthood to comment, that you direct this thread to their attention by email or pm. Just like the rest of us, they are not required to even view this forum, let alone participate if it is not their wish.
 

Valor

Active Member
What is it about these specific questions that makes a response from Sireal or Adams more favorable than those given already, especially since the nature of these questions speaks to the individual affiliated members perspectives, rather than the Temple itself.

What is it about the replies to these questions that suggest the person was speaking for the Temple rather than giving their own perspective?


It comes down to experience Mr. Mackinnon, something which can not be learned. Are you taking offense to this? If so, why?

I never said others were not qualified, but in the eyes of the Temple those who are not members of the admin, can not. Please understand that it was not my rule, but that of your Temple which states you, mackinnon, are not qualified to speak for the body of the Organization you belong to. Again...im sure you are well versed in the Temples literature, but i was hoping to hear replies by the more experienced priesthood.

If your aim is to critisize my desire to hear knowledge from the more experienced, then you would do well to question this motivation of yours. How did this come to be and why. Seems personally destructive.
 
Top