3 questions for affiliated?

[MacKinnon]

I've already stated in my response to the original questions, and to yours earlier that I do not speak for the Temple, nor cater my answers to please anybody. I answer honestly and of my own perspective.

I do not fault you for wanting to hear from the Priesthood, rather that you expect it of them as though they are compelled to respond. Magister Adams has his own site, his own radio show and contact information provided, by all means get in touch if you want to hear his views quickly, otherwise be patient. He might respond or not.

 

[Valor]

No malice sir, just some mild concern that you would consider yourself so well informed.

Where do you get this from? I never said i was well informed, but rather i have much literature concerning the temple. For all we know, i may have read nothing. Lol.

the priesthood may or may not respond. I would suggest that if you want a specific member of the priesthood to comment, that you direct this thread to their attention by email or pm. Just like the rest of us, they are not required to even view this forum, let alone participate if it is not their wish.

Believe you me... the priesthood here, in my experience, never miss a thing. Adams and Sireal have proven to be very intelligent concerning many topics. This is why i often look for their replies, even if we are not on the same page, they're knowledge is very welcome.

 

[Valor]

I do not fault you for wanting to hear from the Priesthood, rather that you expect it of them as though they are compelled to respond. Magister Adams has his own site, his own radio show and contact information provided, by all means get in touch if you want to hear his views quickly, otherwise be patient. He might respond or not.

I was simply stressing that more often than not the priesthood stays out of questions directed to the temple...unfortunately.

Of course i expect them to answer in a forum they belong to under threads that require replies from the affiliated, wouldn't you?

Tis'all.

 

[Daelach]

Of course i expect them to answer in a forum they belong to under threads that require replies from the affiliated, wouldn't you?

I wouldn't. You see, I don't like the ToS too well, but this is a somewhat unjust expectation. The ToS priests are not being paid by the ToS, which means that they have to earn a living. Besides that, many have a family, I guess, and friends. And also private projects for their own Xeper. Sleeping is another time-consuming, but necessary thing.

And on top of all that, they have to take care of ToS members. Accompanying I* to their II*, working with II*, maybe running a pylon, getting things done with their III* pairs. That is why they became priests in the ToS in the first place, not only for weaving shiny black medallions. Their primary ToS-related duty lies with the ToS and not with non-affilated outsiders.

If they STILL have some leisure time after all that, they just may drop in here. But I fully understand that this forum has the lowest priority of all the things I mentioned.

 

[Valor]

I wouldn't. You see, I don't like the ToS too well, but this is a somewhat unjust expectation. The ToS priests are not being paid by the ToS, which means that they have to earn a living. Besides that, many have a family, I guess, and friends. And also private projects for their own Xeper. Sleeping is another time-consuming, but necessary thing.

And on top of all that, they have to take care of ToS members. Accompanying I* to their II*, working with II*, maybe running a pylon, getting things done with their III* pairs. That is why they became priests in the ToS in the first place, not only for weaving shiny black medallions. Their primary ToS-related duty lies with the ToS and not with non-affilated outsiders.

If they STILL have some leisure time after all that, they just may drop in here. But I fully understand that this forum has the lowest priority of all the things I mentioned.

I agree totally... but i would still expect them to chime in on the more warranted questions. Maybe im expecting too much? Probably, but the short time it takes to reply, from other deeds?

I know most of the questions are below the bar... but there are those few that are not.

 

[MacKinnon]

Where do you get this from? I never said i was well informed, but rather i have much literature concerning the temple. For all we know, i may have read nothing. Lol.

Oh, just here

may i ask how you know this to be true without being affiliated to the other orgs? Im not a member, never was a member... however, i have almost all of your revised literature and tablets.

and here where you imply you have enough of an understanding of how the ToS operates, despite having never been a part of it or having experienced it.

there are those that are not keen on how the temple of Set operarates, including myself. But again, im not about to comment on these flaws in an open forum.

Moving on...

I was simply stressing that more often than not the priesthood stays out of questions directed to the temple...unfortunately.

Of course i expect them to answer in a forum they belong to under threads that require replies from the affiliated, wouldn't you?

Ah but they don't belong to this forum or any other. Their participation here is not mandatory. This forum is also the Setian DIR, not the ToS DIR. I think that's an important distinction as there is unlikely ever to be a public forum dedicated to the philosophies and perspectives of Setian philosopy as enjoyed by the ToS, its initiates or its priesthood.

The Priesthood of the ToS are quite a busy bunch, when given the choice between answering somebody of the I* who is just getting to grips with what Xeper is, for example, and responding to regulars on this forum, I know which I'd give priority to.

Anybody who is looking for an official response from a representative of the ToS is welcome to make contact with a member of the priesthood via the executive director.

Believe you me... the priesthood here, in my experience, never miss a thing. Adams and Sireal have proven to be very intelligent concerning many topics. This is why i often look for their replies, even if we are not on the same page, they're knowledge is very welcome.

Lets not forget that they are human beings with rea lives and all the trappings that go along with them, not omnipresent, omniscient creatures who see and hear all. It is good to hear from them publicly, but that is a privelege.

 

[Valor]

Oh, just here
and here where you imply you have enough of an understanding of how the ToS operates, despite having never been a part of it or having experienced it.

Moving on...

Ah but they don't belong to this forum or any other. Their participation here is not mandatory. This forum is also the Setian DIR, not the ToS DIR. I think that's an important distinction as there is unlikely ever to be a public forum dedicated to the philosophies and perspectives of Setian philosopy as enjoyed by the ToS, its initiates or its priesthood.

The Priesthood of the ToS are quite a busy bunch, when given the choice between answering somebody of the I* who is just getting to grips with what Xeper is, for example, and responding to regulars on this forum, I know which I'd give priority to.

Anybody who is looking for an official response from a representative of the ToS is welcome to make contact with a member of the priesthood via the executive director.

Lets not forget that they are human beings with rea lives and all the trappings that go along with them, not omnipresent, omniscient creatures who see and hear all. It is good to hear from them publicly, but that is a privelege.

Most of my knowledge of the temple and how it operates comes from ex membrs of the priesthood, half of them are not disgruntled, but have moved on to bigger, more effective, ways to seek sovereignty and Xeper. And still hold the temple in high regard.

Have i experienced this first hand, no, but if i were to explain to you how a certain job requires x ammount of attention and needs, then by these details and requirements of this job, you will acertain whether or not this job is for you.

Granted that i do feel there are benifits by joining, yes, but is it the ideal environment for me to excell in? No.

There is no mandation of the Piesthood to reply. It is also not a privilege for non-members. But more so a welcome arrangement.

 

[MacKinnon]

Most of my knowledge of the temple and how it operates comes from ex membrs of the priesthood, half of them are not disgruntled, but have moved on to bigger, more effective, ways to seek sovereignty and Xeper. And still hold the temple in high regard.

Have i experienced this first hand, no, but if i were to explain to you how a certain job requires x ammount of attention and needs, then by these details and requirements of this job, you will acertain whether or not this job is for you.

If we were talking about an organisation or job that does not change, then I might agree with you. However, the ToS is not static. It is evolving. It changes as its members change. Magister Adams has said in one of his podcasts that the way the ToS is and operates now compared with how it did and was when he joined 17 years ago is different. I've only been a member for 3 and a half years and I have seen changes as well.

 

[Valor]

If we were talking about an organisation or job that does not change, then I might agree with you. However, the ToS is not static. It is evolving. It changes as its members change. Magister Adams has said in one of his podcasts that the way the ToS is and operates now compared with how it did and was when he joined 17 years ago is different. I've only been a member for 3 and a half years and I have seen changes as well.

Then let me be clear...from the information i have gathered thus far concerning the temple of Sets operations, for the past 25 years, it is not, and never was, the ideal learning environment for me to excell to date. There was a time where i thought it was, yes. But the more info i gathered concerning this environment, the more i applauded myself for not joining, and thank the temple for not excepting my application due to a felony 13 years ago.

I thank, to this day, whatever gods may be.

Im treading this Path alone, as Set once had. No help from the gods, however still defeated Apep. As the mythology describes it... he, too, was alone in the desert. The environment may be harsh...but it defines our constitution, tempering our Will...revealing our character.

 

[Valor]

P.s. not to sound arrogant, but i've been interested in the work of the temple 4 times as long you've been affiliated. It was neurotic passion of mine.

Just to put it into perspective, its been a 15 year mental thesis, i've done my research and so much more. Look for a thread titled" how do i know im ready" here in our Setian Dir.

 

[MacKinnon]

I read that post a while back.

But I would just ask you to consider this comment by Magister Adams in the same thread, but directed to Daelach.

You on the other hand, aren't a member at all and never have been. Say what you like about Set, but don't talk about what the Temple thinks or does because you don't know.

 

[Valor]

I read that post a while back.

But I would just ask you to consider this comment by Magister Adams in the same thread, but directed to Daelach.

Oh...but i know very well. I can't speak for our friend Daelach, but the entire works and ethics were explained in the greatest of detail. Just because i never opened a door, doesn't mean the temple closed the windows.

 

[Valor]

Hmmm...let's say, for instance, out of Darkness stemmed an idea. This idea was fueled by being curious.... what's to say some ones step brother didn't get turned away...and passes the books to those less fortunate, holds email under xeper.org, has spoken via phone in place of his brother who's now adept...ect,ect...

How does the temple trouble shoot this?

Of course, this is just saying........

 

[EtuMalku]

I can only speak as a Setian I*, but I can attest that the Temple moves quite furiously. Sometimes too furiously for me. It is ever changing, never Apophic. To not have access to the current literature, the inside philosophical discussions, and the Workings is not really having a notion as to what the Temple 'IS' but rather what is 'WAS'. Just being able to talk to Ipsissimus Webb and of course Ipsissimus Aquino usually can and does provide Leviathanic depths of knowledge not accessible outside of the Temple.

Valor, I know you have a distaste towards your not being allowed to Affiliate, I truly wish there was something I could do, I have spoken to you for some time (even in private) and I believe you would make a fine member.

EM

 

[Valor]

I can only speak as a Setian I*, but I can attest that the Temple moves quite furiously. Sometimes too furiously for me. It is ever changing, never Apophic. To not have access to the current literature, the inside philosophical discussions, and the Workings is not really having a notion as to what the Temple 'IS' but rather what is 'WAS'. Just being able to talk to Ipsissimus Webb and of course Ipsissimus Aquino usually can and does provide Leviathanic depths of knowledge not accessible outside of the Temple.

Valor, I know you have a distaste towards your not being allowed to Affiliate, I truly wish there was something I could do, I have spoken to you for some time (even in private) and I believe you would make a fine member.

EM

Thank you for the kind words, sincerely. However, i don't intend to apply and would not if the chance fell in my lap tonight. But i understand that it is effective for some, but im standing my ground and politely pass in the account of any future change. Im treading a different path these days... a very attuned one. Ill still incorporate Webb's work, but the Wills aim is to work from a higher center.

Im done on this thread...i've taken it off topic. Ty

 

[ktf]

Just to answer those who keep writing that those on the outside of the TOS cant possibly know what is going on inside the TOS because they do not have access to up to date literature:

The TOS leaks like a sinking ship. It seems that every few months there are new, updated versions of the secret, sacred Tablets floating around. There are quite a few Adept and above current members who openly share the "secrets" with friends and fellow magicians. Don Webb and M. Aquino are both responsive to personal e-mails from non TOS members etc. etc. etc. And the various forms of the Setian forums are continually hacked and raided. In the year 2010 it is impossible for an occult order to keep secrets. The information is out there for those who know how to dig. The benifit of obtaining the "secrets" without actually joing an occult order like the TOS is that the magician is not subjected to the group think and dogma that grows like a mold on such organizations...without fail. And ultimately there are no "secrets". A true magicians discovers all for herself. Others can point the way but 9 times out of 10 they point in the wrong direction without even knowing it. Most of these organizations are boiling over with the pashu herd.

 

[KHPR]

Just to answer those who keep writing that those on the outside of the TOS cant possibly know what is going on inside the TOS because they do not have access to up to date literature:

The TOS leaks like a sinking ship. It seems that every few months there are new, updated versions of the secret, sacred Tablets floating around. There are quite a few Adept and above current members who openly share the "secrets" with friends and fellow magicians. Don Webb and M. Aquino are both responsive to personal e-mails from non TOS members etc. etc. etc. And the various forms of the Setian forums are continually hacked and raided. In the year 2010 it is impossible for an occult order to keep secrets. The information is out there for those who know how to dig. The benifit of obtaining the "secrets" without actually joing an occult order like the TOS is that the magician is not subjected to the group think and dogma that grows like a mold on such organizations...without fail. And ultimately there are no "secrets". A true magicians discovers all for herself. Others can point the way but 9 times out of 10 they point in the wrong direction without even knowing it. Most of these organizations are boiling over with the pashu herd.

I would say the sharing is coming more from Don Webb, Dr. Aquino and myself. This isn't a bad thing though as there are people outside the ToS who can benefit from what we've written. Those who can't understand it, it will just fall on deaf ears.

I believe though that using "dogma" is a rather emotionally charged word. If you're inside the Temple you have access to people who have used its teaching and done something with it. If you don't like the way they present it you don't have to listen to them, but if it does resonate with you, then you'll learn something. I would say you hit it on the head though with your comment:

Others can point the way but 9 times out of 10 they point in the wrong direction without even knowing it.

Those are usually the people outside the ToS.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness

 

[ktf]

Of course this is your position, being deep inside the TOS. I wont argue the point of dogma, I imagine the intellegent will understand, the ignorant will not, and the true believers will refuse to see. This is a common trait in all secret societies, religions, and most occult orders.

My comment regarding 9 out of 10 applies to those within and without the ToS.

In regard to who is sharing info from within the ToS: it is you, Webb, and Aquino, sure; but there are other Adepts, Priests and atleast 1 Magister that I know of who share up to date documents, teaching, Workings, recordings etc. My point is that it is not necessary to join the ToS to have access to the inner "secrets", up to date documents, teachers, conversations and such.

 

[KHPR]

My point is that it is not necessary to join the ToS to have access to the inner "secrets", up to date documents, teachers, conversations and such.

I agree, but if you don't have a context in which to interpret the material you might as well be chugging robotussin and talking to Set in your dreams.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness

 

[ktf]

The context is intellegence. The true Adept (and by this I am not refering to any grade in any order) will have the intellegence and expereince to be able to interpret any materials she discovers. The true Adept does not need to recieve context from an organization. Where teachers are needed they tend to manifest. As I mentioned above, your organization contains a few renegades (some holding your degree) who are quite willing to teach the true student whether that student resides inside the walls of the ToS or roams free. However, most true magic cannot be taught, hints can be given, and they can be figured out, either way an occult order is far from necessary. More often than not, most occult orders become a hinderance to true Initiation.