40% of Americans belive the world was created 6000-years ago

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

There are three types of lies existent.
Lies

White lies

And statistics.

 

[Sunstone]

Genuine statistics don't lie. It's rather that most people don't know jack about interpreting them. Relatively few people think in statistical terms.

 

[Jeremiah]

I took your advice and googled it, I got a hit so I guess it must be true :yes:

I suggest you try a little harder.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

My point is that statistics can be made to support any position. All that has to be altered is presentation and the very same statistics can be used to support opposite positions. This is a very old, very effective rhetorical tool that is used by everyone from religious apologists to government officials and beyond.

 

[Jeremiah]

Genuine statistics don't lie. It's rather that most people don't know jack about interpreting them. Relatively few people think in statistical terms.

What are you waiting for? Please, tell us how should we interpret this.

Here's one for you....

"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire

 

[Sunstone]

What are you waiting for? Please, tell us how should we interpret this.

Interpret what?

Here's one for you....

"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire

Are you commenting on your commments in this thread? I thought some of them were quite witty.

 

[Jeremiah]

My point is that statistics can be made to support any position. All that has to be altered is presentation and the very same statistics can be used to support opposite positions. This is a very old, very effective rhetorical tool that is used by everyone from religious apologists to government officials and beyond.

Yes, that is the general blanket statement typically made with confronted with statistics. But if you are going to criticize the data then show us where it is erroneous. Or else nothing is gained out of the discourse.

 

[AxisMundi]

What hope for Science when 40% of americans believe the world was created 6000 years ago. You know how it goes, its start off with a reasonable figure and ends up ridiculous, but this is what we are told in Australia. Is it true?

83% of statistics are fabricated.

 

[Jeremiah]

Interpret what?



Are you commenting on your commments in this thread?

"Interpret what?"

The statistics that I posted, Sunstone. It would be nice if you actually gave a worthwhile thought on them. Because I would like to hear valid object criticism on them and not some general off the wall statement that people make when they are being to lazy to make a real post.


I do like how, though, that many reject the data simply because they don't like what it says.

 

[Adso]

What hope for Science when 40% of americans believe the world was created 6000 years ago. You know how it goes, its start off with a reasonable figure and ends up ridiculous, but this is what we are told in Australia. Is it true?

I'm not sure what correlation you're seeing between the state of science and the personal beliefs of individuals.

 

[AxisMundi]

What are you waiting for? Please, tell us how should we interpret this.

Here's one for you....

"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire

May I ask why it is do important to you to prove that 40% of Americans are YECers?

 

[Jeremiah]

May I ask why it is do important to you to prove that 40% of Americans are YECers?

Nothing is gained out a discourse where everyone is just trying to be witty. I mean sure it is fun to do, but how much of the posts on RF are just whimsical remarks that are cute and make people go "O that's clever", but add no real value to the conversation? I guess I am just getting tired of it, I mean I want to hear what people have to say not how clever they can be.

*Waits for clever remark....*

And btw, I am not trying to prove anything.

 

[gnomon]

"Interpret what?"

The statistics that I posted, Sunstone. It would be nice if you actually gave a worthwhile thought on them. Because I would like to hear valid object criticism on them and not some general off the wall statement that people make when they are being to lazy to make a real post.


I do like how, though, that many reject the data simply because they don't like what it says.

It wasn't rejected.

It was questioned.

The problems with polls is not only how do individuals interpret the poll but how was the question put.

A PEW forum poll once showed that a certain percentage of atheists believed in God. Basically due to poor wording of the questions and a poor poll formula.

 

[ChristineES]

We are trying to be "witty" because we really don't believe it, and for various reasons. Mine is that I have never trusted statistics of any kind. They ask 1,000 people to tell how millions think. It can be accurate but it has more of a much a chance to be inaccurate. That is just how I feel about it.

 

[Jeremiah]

It wasn't rejected.

It was questioned.

The problems with polls is not only how do individuals interpret the poll but how was the question put.

A PEW forum poll once showed that a certain percentage of atheists believed in God. Basically due to poor wording of the questions and a poor poll formula.

OK, then actually go look at the polls and the source then come back with real criticism.

 

[Jeremiah]

We are trying to be "witty" because we really don't believe it, and for various reasons. Mine is that I have never trusted statistics of any kind. They ask 1,000 people to tell how millions think. It can be accurate but it has more of a much a chance to be inaccurate. That is just how I feel about it.

How much we can rely on polls is a very good question. I am was trying to find something but Google got swamped with nonsense on my search. I'll pick the search back up after lunch.

 

[Jeremiah]

The old "it was on google so it is true" argument.

With just a bit of elbow grease Google can be a wealth of information.

 

[xkatz]

That estimate sounds a bit too high IMO.

 

[AxisMundi]

Nothing is gained out a discourse where everyone is just trying to be witty. I mean sure it is fun to do, but how much of the posts on RF are just whimsical remarks that are cute and make people go "O that's clever", but add no real value to the conversation? I guess I am just getting tired of it, I mean I want to hear what people have to say not how clever they can be.

*Waits for clever remark....*

And btw, I am not trying to prove anything.

Thanks for clarifying.

Polls can be skewed, even from a more trusted source like Gallup, for several reasons.

Polling companies ARE companies, and will cater to those who commission that poll.

Polls canvas a ridiculously small percentage of Americans, and can hardly be said to be all inclusive.

WHERE polls are conducted can also skew the results. For example, perhaps 40% of people in the Bible Belt are indeed YECers. Does this reflect the entire country?

 

[gnomon]

OK, then actually go look at the polls and the source then come back with real criticism.

First criticism.

Belief that man was created by God, which in this poll can be assumed to be any god concept as it is not defined as the Abrahamic God, does not equate to Young Earth Creationism. Many people believe the planet has existed for quite some time beyond 10,000 years or simply don't care but believe that humanity was created in a relatively short time scale. Raelians believe this, for example.

One thing the poll does not tell us is that of those who did state that they believe human creation occurred as per the Biblical account, 53% according to the poll (which still bears no relevance on YEC), how many of them also answered "a great deal" to the question of how important that view is or if it matters if it is correct. It may be that the "a great deal" respondents were comprised primarily of those who took less literal interpretations.

There are no questions regarding geology and other factors that comprise the views of Young Earth Creationists. Some may say that stating that human creation within 10,000 years does amount to describing Christian YEC's. It doesn't.

Last of all, where is the data for this poll. What method was used to conduct the poll (phone interview, street interview, mail, etc.), how many people were polled, what geographical locations......no data at all.

As I said earlier there was a Pew Forum poll showing 21% of atheists believing in God. That included a personal God or impersonal God. The problem is that agnostics, atheists, pantheists, non-denominational and those who expressed a certain vague concept were lumped together. The original polling question giving that result asked for a belief in God or Universal Spirit.

As I said, I doubt the veracity of the poll. That's real criticism. What more do you want? If you do not like my earlier post showing the true measure of stupidity among the American people than tough. If you are trying to make a case that many people believe in a concept considered stupid, YEC for example, yet the US is still a great nation in regards to science I fail to see the relevance beyond noting contradictions and why people believe weird things. I've met smart people who will stick lit candles in their ear.