50 Killed at Florida Nightclub by Muslim Man

[McBell]

OK, until the next one, next week, next month, whenever. Bury your heads in the sand.

Perhaps you could do me a favour and just finish dictating to me how I feel, what I believe, etc. and then I won't even have to post anything for you to continue our "discussion"?

 

[Altfish]

Perhaps you could do me a favour and just finish dictating to me how I feel, what I believe, etc. and then I won't even have to post anything for you to continue our "discussion"?

Ooh you are angry, hope you don't have a gun.

OK I'll back off. You win.

 

[McBell]

Ooh you are angry, hope you don't have a gun.

OK I'll back off. You win.

if it helps you to believe you have made me angry, go right ahead.
Truth does not seem to matter to you anyway, why let it get in your way now?

That you re not willing to know what I believe and think and instead want to dictate them to me strongly indicates you are not interested in honest discussion.
If I am not going to waste my time with bull headed agenda groups, what makes you think you are so special?

 

[suncowiam]

Your own words when comparing two weapons.

"dead is dead."

O b f u s c a t i o n. You know this well young apprentice.

 

[Ingledsva]

Did you folks notice that at the News conference this morning, one of the reporters asked if they were monitoring the whereabouts of the Westboro Baptist Church group?

I hope they are monitoring them, and if they show up and start their crap, they should be arrested.

I don't understand why they are letting them get away with their crap. They say freedom of speech, however, we have laws against inciting to riot, and that is exactly what they are doing, and have said they are doing.

*

 

[Demonslayer]

I don't understand why they are letting them get away with their crap. They say freedom of speech, however, we have laws against inciting to riot, and that is exactly what they are doing, and have said they are doing.

It's not just them, there is a Curtis Knapp and Charles Worley around every corner in the US. You can't silence them all, no matter how much you'd love to try.

 

[Neo Deist]

Handguns do not have the power, in terms of the force propelling the bullet and killing power, that an AR-15 has. They can still kill, but comparing a handgun (unless it's a high powered one) to an AR-15 is like comparing a pack of firecrackers to a stick of dynamite.

Now we are entering ballistics, which is my field...

The AR platform is normally a .223 caliber round. You are correct in that the .223 has more stopping power because of its velocity, kinetic energy and tissue destruction capabilities. However, there are only two spots on the human body that are a guaranteed, instantaneous kill: the brain and the brain stem. If you destroy either of those, the person drops dead right then and there. Both rifle and pistol rounds striking either of those spots will yield the same result. Yes, there are people that get shot in the head and live, but that is because the round did not destroy the "Fatal T" area of the brain. That T is the cross section from your eyes down to the bottom of your nose.

Even a strike through the heart is not instantaneous death. A shot through the heart only kills once the person bleeds out from the hole the round made. This is where the destructive capabilities of various rounds can be superior to others. In this scenario, yes the .223 trumps a pistol round. However, you are talking seconds, not minutes. I have worked scenes where someone was shot through the heart, ran 100 feet and then dropped dead. Others get shot through the heart, their bodies go into shock and they seize up, dropping to the ground and bleeding out where they fell. Everyone is different.

My particular duty weapon is a Springfield XDm 9mm custom, with 23 round magazines (19 base + 4 round extensions). I use law enforcement only (have to have credentials) duty ammo that is manufactured by Federal. My 124 +P rounds have greater velocity, penetration and expansion than many of the popular and commercially available .45 ACP hollow points such as the 230g Speer Gold Dot. I can hold 2 at a time for a combined 48 round volley firing in two different directions, before having to reload.

A pistol, in the right hands, can be just as effective if not more. This is not the norm, but the capability does exist.

 

[Onyx]

The shooter wasn't a Muslim. He was a poser and a loser.

 

[Demonslayer]

The shooter wasn't a Muslim.

I hear he wasn't a True Scotsman either.

 

[suncowiam]

Did you folks notice that at the News conference this morning, one of the reporters asked if they were monitoring the whereabouts of the Westboro Baptist Church group?

I hope they are monitoring them, and if they show up and start their crap, they should be arrested.

I don't understand why they are letting them get away with their crap. They say freedom of speech, however, we have laws against inciting to riot, and that is exactly what they are doing, and have said they are doing.

*

I hate to say it, but that's what free speech is all about.

Plus, I don't think we should censor them to begin with. They showcase an extreme form of religion so to remind all America what theoretically could happen if religion goes unchecked.

 

[RedDragon94]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/

A man armed with at least an assault rifle and a pistol entered a LGBT nightclub and opened fire. At least 50 people were murdered and another 50+ were injured. The death toll is expected to go up based on the critically injured that were transported to the hospital.

The man's name is Omar Mateen, and he was killed by police when they stormed the club. Omar is an American born Muslim, a Florida native, and had pledged allegiance to ISIS. He actually called 9-1-1 just before the attack and told the operator of his affiliation to ISIS.

This, during Ramadan, and with the ISIS leadership calling out for world wide violence.

For the anti-Trump people, this could not have happened at a worse time. This type of event will fuel Trump's desire to stop Muslim immigrants from entering the USA. It will have a bandwagon effect. I am aware that this man was American born, but since he is Muslim, it will fuel the hatred of that label.

Here's what scares me. (I'm not a Trump supporter, but) I'm disturbed that in a majority of Muslim countries (so says Youtube) 67% of Muslims in those countries would not turn in a radical to the authorities. The father of Omar Mateen says he didn't see any sign of his son being radicalized. Wulllllll the question is was he looking for those signs of extremism. The religion of Islam is either completely oblivious to the fact that their religion is producing a minority of violence or it's completely fine with it. It probably varies from person to person, yes, I understand that. But when the rest of the world sees that you have a problem in your religious community and it's violent you would think that the majority of peace loving Muslims would be trying to fix that at all costs. I think Islam needs a reformation if it wants to survive.

 

[Sakeenah]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/

A man armed with at least an assault rifle and a pistol entered a LGBT nightclub and opened fire. At least 50 people were murdered and another 50+ were injured. The death toll is expected to go up based on the critically injured that were transported to the hospital.

The man's name is Omar Mateen, and he was killed by police when they stormed the club. Omar is an American born Muslim, a Florida native, and had pledged allegiance to ISIS. He actually called 9-1-1 just before the attack and told the operator of his affiliation to ISIS.

This, during Ramadan, and with the ISIS leadership calling out for world wide violence.

For the anti-Trump people, this could not have happened at a worse time. This type of event will fuel Trump's desire to stop Muslim immigrants from entering the USA. It will have a bandwagon effect. I am aware that this man was American born, but since he is Muslim, it will fuel the hatred of that label.

Correction: 50 Killed at Florida nightclub by homophobe

 

[Neo Deist]

Correction: 50 Killed at Florida nightclub by homophobe

Correction: 49 people murdered, suspect was #50. He may have been a homophobe, but he was also Muslim and pledged allegiance to ISIS. He acted as a lone wolf during Ramadan.

 

[YmirGF]

Correction: 49 people murdered, suspect was #50. He may have been a homophobe, but he was also Muslim and pledged allegiance to ISIS. He acted as a lone wolf during Ramadan.

Pretty much this.

Correction: 50 Killed at Florida nightclub by homophobe

I've yet to hear of a non-Muslim yelling "Allahu akbar" while shooting people down. That would be more than a little weird.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

Again, from what we know thus far...

1. He is an American born citizen that identifies with the Islamic religion.
2. He worked as a security guard and had legally purchased guns.
3. He targeted a LGBT nightclub.
4. He called 9-1-1 just prior to the shooting and told the operator that he was affiliated with ISIS.
5. It happened during Ramadan, and the ISIS leaders have called for world wide violence during this time.
6. Cops responded, stormed the club, exchanged gun fire with him, and sent him to the grave.
7. ISIS is cheering the event and claiming that he was one of their's.

What we know:

Omar Mateen never practiced his faith.

Omar Mateen was homosexual.

Omar Mateen had been spurned several times at the club.

Omar Mateen drank alcohol repeatedly.

Omar Mateen abused his wife (ex)

Omar Mateen was mentally unstable and due to American laws, still able to buy firearms.

I didn't know a supposedly Islamic extremist group such as ISIS were starting to recruit homosexuals you drank and frequented clubs...kinda goes against the whole extremist thing, right?

Also, what kind of ISLAMIC extremist group is ISIS which calls for violence DURING Ramadan, which is forbidden in Islam?

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

Here's what scares me. (I'm not a Trump supporter, but) I'm disturbed that in a majority of Muslim countries (so says Youtube) 67% of Muslims in those countries would not turn in a radical to the authorities. The father of Omar Mateen says he didn't see any sign of his son being radicalized. Wulllllll the question is was he looking for those signs of extremism. The religion of Islam is either completely oblivious to the fact that their religion is producing a minority of violence or it's completely fine with it. It probably varies from person to person, yes, I understand that. But when the rest of the world sees that you have a problem in your religious community and it's violent you would think that the majority of peace loving Muslims would be trying to fix that at all costs. I think Islam needs a reformation if it wants to survive.

That's because there was no sign of radicalisation. This guy was a drinker and a homosexual, frustrated, angry, mentally unstable. He was hardly a practicing Muslim, let alone one who had taken his religion to the extreme.

But you know, use whichever media narrative suits your own personal views.

 

[Neo Deist]

Also, what kind of ISLAMIC extremist group is ISIS which calls for violence DURING Ramadan, which is forbidden in Islam?

The terrorist kind.

 

[Neo Deist]

What we know:

Omar Mateen never practiced his faith.

Omar Mateen was homosexual.

Omar Mateen had been spurned several times at the club.

Omar Mateen drank alcohol repeatedly.

Omar Mateen abused his wife (ex)

Omar Mateen was mentally unstable and due to American laws, still able to buy firearms.

I didn't know a supposedly Islamic extremist group such as ISIS were starting to recruit homosexuals you drank and frequented clubs...kinda goes against the whole extremist thing, right?

Also, what kind of ISLAMIC extremist group is ISIS which calls for violence DURING Ramadan, which is forbidden in Islam?

I understand what you are doing. You are trying to distance yourself from him and downplay his Muslim identity. You don't want him associated with your religion. Well, he was Muslim and yes he did practice his faith. In an interview with a co-worker (Daniel Gilroy) it was made clear that Mateen brought his prayer rug to work with him and regularly prayed, so your comment of "Omar Mateen never practiced his faith." is horse ****. Not to mention he made phone calls to the 9-1-1 center and told them he was affiliated with ISIS. The rest of his persona are all inner demons that anyone can have.

You may not like it, but the fact is that radical Muslim extremists are the terrorists that the world sees.

 

[Akivah]

Did you folks notice that at the News conference this morning, one of the reporters asked if they were monitoring the whereabouts of the Westboro Baptist Church group?

I hope they are monitoring them, and if they show up and start their crap, they should be arrested.

I don't understand why they are letting them get away with their crap. They say freedom of speech, however, we have laws against inciting to riot, and that is exactly what they are doing, and have said they are doing.*

The Orlando paper mentioned this morning that "the authorities are prepared and will not let any group disrupt the funerals". Westboro was not mentioned by name, but most people are aware of their existence. Plus Westboro's communications have indicated that they are 'Orlando bound'. I thought it was interesting that the article didn't mention HOW their disruption would be prevented.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The religion of Islam is either completely oblivious to the fact that their religion is producing a minority of violence or it's completely fine with it. It probably varies from person to person, yes, I understand that. But when the rest of the world sees that you have a problem in your religious community and it's violent you would think that the majority of peace loving Muslims would be trying to fix that at all costs. I think Islam needs a reformation if it wants to survive.

It may be, psychologically, the same reason many Americans do not wake up and remain oblivious to the true cost of American living, which is why we not only have several McDonalds (in addition to the rest of the fast food joints) in all but the smallest of towns, rampant environmental destruction, war profiteering, severe human exploitation, and that our resource consumption is comparable to someone who won the lottery only to blow through their money and not having the foresight to see themselves overdrawing their bank account. And, to make it worse, Islam extremism as we know is partially a bi-product of British/American ways of living, which includes severe political apathy that translates to an unused democratic election that ensures those who seek to gain from such things will maintain power. We may ***** a lot about it, but we do nothing, and there is a real human cost to our doing nothing.