50 Killed at Florida Nightclub by Muslim Man

[Prestor John]

We shouldn't blame religion and law for our bad choices.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We shouldn't blame religion and law for our bad choices.

Sometimes, those thing do fuel bad choices, and they're not the only things that do.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

We shouldn't blame religion and law for our bad choices.

In this case, it seems like mental illness is the root of the issue, which appears to run in his family (his father has symptoms of psychosis at times and so did Omar). If society would give mental health issues the focus it needs and fix the broken healthcare system, these events would be fairly rare.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In this case, it seems like mental illness is the root of the issue, which appears to run in his family (his father has symptoms of psychosis at times and so did Omar). If society would give mental health issues the focus it needs and fix the broken healthcare system, these events would be fairly rare.

And an extreme example of what happens to someone when you tell them god hates them. Combine that with his mental health issues, and it probably would have happened even if he was Christian (or a member of any group with such hatred and bitterness towards homosexuals).

 

[Father Heathen]

We shouldn't blame religion and law for our bad choices.

We can blame irrational beliefs for irrational actions.

 

[OceanSoul]

Heartbreaking. My brother doesn't live far from that club and spoke to a couple of people who were at the club when it occurred.

Such hatred towards other human beings doesn't make any sense to me. My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

 

[Prestor John]

Sometimes, those thing do fuel bad choices, and they're not the only things that do.

The same could be said of a number of things including video games or any media outlet.

Wasn't Ronald Reagan shot because a guy had a delusion about Jody Foster?

 

[Prestor John]

We can blame irrational beliefs for irrational actions.

I agree.

What does that have to do with my comment?

 

[LuisDantas]

I agree.

What does that have to do with my comment?

There is such a thing as responsibility of belief.

 

[Prestor John]

There is such a thing as responsibility of belief.

I don't know any religion outside of Islam that would advocate this kind of violence.

Rather than blaming "religion" or guns, let's place the blame where it belongs - Islam.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I don't know any religion outside of Islam that would advocate this kind of violence.

Rather than blaming "religion" or guns, let's place the blame where it belongs - Islam.

Funny, I thought the blame belongs on the individual, not the ideology. Because I have a lot to say about how toxic American gun culture and Abrahamic religions as a whole are.

 

[McBell]

I don't know any religion outside of Islam that would advocate this kind of violence.

Counting the hits and ignoring the misses.

Rather than blaming "religion" or guns, let's place the blame where it belongs - Islam.

Yes, let us place the blame where it really belongs, the people.

the blame cannot be put on Islam any more than the blame for the Crusades can be put on Christianity.

I know a whole lot of Muslims who are pacifists....

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't know any religion outside of Islam that would advocate this kind of violence.

Christianity still has a good amount of violent adherents. The Tanakh and New Testament are both filled with many examples where violence just wasn't advocated, it was the divine commandment of god himself. Death is the punishment for some crimes, and even slavery is permitted. Even in America we have a ton of Christians who believe it is there "religious right" to publicly discriminate against those they have "religious objections" against.

 

[Prestor John]

Funny, I thought the blame belongs on the individual, not the ideology. Because I have a lot to say about how toxic American gun culture and Abrahamic religions as a whole are.

You're right. I should have narrowed it down more. The blame obviously belong on the individual and, in regards to this issue, the teachings of Mohammad

 

[Prestor John]

Counting the hits and ignoring the misses.

Christianity hinges on Christ. Islam hinges on Mohammad.

Christ does not call for the death of homosexuals. Mohammad does call for the death of homosexuals.

Yes, let us place the blame where it really belongs, the people.

the blame cannot be put on Islam any more than the blame for the Crusades can be put on Christianity.

I know a whole lot of Muslims who are pacifists....

If they are pacifists then they are not following the teachings of Mohammad.

I know a lot of Christians who hate those who are different. They are not following the teachings of Christ.

 

[McBell]

Christianity hinges on Christ. Islam hinges on Mohammad.

And?
What does that have to do with the fact that you have to ignore the violence perpetrated by Christians in order to make the claim?

Christ does not call for the death of homosexuals. Mohammad does call for the death of homosexuals.

Ah, so Jesus out ranks his father.
Good to know.
Or is it an easy out?

If they are pacifists then they are not following the teachings of Mohammad.

Says you.

I know a lot of Christians who hate those who are different. They are not following the teachings of Christ.

Two No True Scotsmans in one post?
That just might be a record here on RF

 

[Prestor John]

Christianity still has a good amount of violent adherents.

They don’t follow the teachings of Christ.

Just like how Muslim pacifists do not follow the teachings of Mohammad.

The Tanakh and New Testament are both filled with many examples where violence just wasn't advocated, it was the divine commandment of god himself.

The Old Testament records many wars and capital punishments.

Where does Christ in the New Testament advocate the use of violence?

Death is the punishment for some crimes, and even slavery is permitted.

Death should be the punishment for some crimes.

God permitting slavery is not the same as advocating slavery.

Even in America we have a ton of Christians who believe it is there "religious right" to publicly discriminate against those they have "religious objections" against.

Yes, they are not following the teaching of Christ.

 

[Prestor John]

And?
What does that have to do with the fact that you have to ignore the violence perpetrated by Christians in order to make the claim?

Christ does not command violence while Mohammad does.

Ah, so Jesus out ranks his father.
Good to know.

Or is it an easy out?

Jesus is the God of Israel. It was He who gave the Law to Moses.

Due to the stiffnecked nature of the Israelites, they received a Lower Law. A very strict taskmaster.

Says you.

Said Mohammad.

He advocated the deaths of Christians and Jews.

Two No True Scotsmans in one post?
That just might be a record here on RF

I am obviously not applying that logical fallacy because there are no requirements for what is a “Scotsman”, while, on the other hand, there are requirements for those who wish to follow either Christ of Mohammad.

If a Christian hates his neighbor, then he is not following the teachings of Christ.

If a Muslim is not killing Christians and Jews, then he is not following the teachings of Mohammad.

 

[McBell]

Christ does not command violence while Mohammad does.

Jesus is the God of Israel. It was He who gave the Law to Moses.

Due to the stiffnecked nature of the Israelites, they received a Lower Law. A very strict taskmaster.

Said Mohammad.

He advocated the deaths of Christians and Jews.

I am obviously not applying that logical fallacy because there are no requirements for what is a “Scotsman”, while, on the other hand, there are requirements for those who wish to follow either Christ of Mohammad.

If a Christian hates his neighbor, then he is not following the teachings of Christ.

If a Muslim is not killing Christians and Jews, then he is not following the teachings of Mohammad.

And yet there are Christians and Jews and Muslims whose very existence proves you wrong....

 

[Prestor John]

And yet there are Christians and Jews and Muslims whose very existence proves you wrong....

How so?