Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
I disagree that a low probability is what I want to stake my life on. I am not someone anyone needs to worry about. I am not going to ever use my gun except to maintain training and if my life is threatened.
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6-year-old student shoots teacher in Virginia classroom, police say
- Thread starter We Never Know
- Start date
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Absolutely it does. Fifth Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Shooting a home intruder deprives them of their 5th Amendment rights.
Then why do you need a gun?
Did you not follow the link? The blue text there at the end?
Your words. Cash bail and longer sentences.
Causes of Crime.
Then you become the very thing that you're claiming to be defending yourself against.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
No, I believe you are wrong. The 5th amendment protects you against the government treating you unfairly.
I think you misunderstood my post. I was saying I would not shoot someone unless they threatened me or my family. Just entering my house is not a cause to shoot someone.
Be specific about what I said you have a problem with please. Quote me and explain why it is wrong. I said I may be for some of the solutions you proposed but that does not mean I agree with no gun ownership.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I will have to agree with @Clizby Wampuscat , that is not what the Fifth Amendment protects against, Shooting in self defense of a house would be a basic right. The argument should be based upon a proper risk assessment. And it is pretty hard to avoid the fact that guns do provide a danger to the gun owner. The question should be :
"Does owning a gun put one at a great risk than an home invasion robbery?". I would say that the bigger threat is owning a gun. If a person becomes depressed the risk of suicide from owning a handgun can become very strong. A friend of mine took his own life with one. If one lives in a wealthier area the odds of a home invasion robbery drop to almost zero. Sadly the poor tend to rob the poor the most. Home invasions are often done for the drugs that people believe are in that house. If a person has an alarm system with signs burglars will simply move on. Unless they have inside information about some specific item that they are going after a house robbery is just not worth the risk if alarmed. That would be a far more sensible solution for most than taking the risk of owning a firearm for "self defense".
We Never Know
No Slack
Its now being reported the school was warned before the shooting that the boy might have a gun.
School knew 6-year-old might have gun before Virginia shooting, didn't find it in search
"RICHMOND, Va. — Administrators at the Virginia school where a first-grader shot his teacher last week learned the child may have had a weapon in his possession before the shooting but did not find the 9mm handgun he brought despite searching his bag, the school system's superintendent said.
Police said Friday they were not told about the tip before the shooting occurred. Kelly King, a spokesperson for the Newport News Police Department, told The Associated Press that some time after the shooting, police learned through their investigation that a school employee was notified of a possible gun at Richneck Elementary School before the Jan. 6 shooting."
Newport News school knew child might have gun before shooting: Report
School knew 6-year-old might have gun before Virginia shooting, didn't find it in search
"RICHMOND, Va. — Administrators at the Virginia school where a first-grader shot his teacher last week learned the child may have had a weapon in his possession before the shooting but did not find the 9mm handgun he brought despite searching his bag, the school system's superintendent said.
Police said Friday they were not told about the tip before the shooting occurred. Kelly King, a spokesperson for the Newport News Police Department, told The Associated Press that some time after the shooting, police learned through their investigation that a school employee was notified of a possible gun at Richneck Elementary School before the Jan. 6 shooting."
Newport News school knew child might have gun before shooting: Report
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
So yes, you are correct there. Normal citizens cannot violate the Constitutional rights of others; it is above our power to do so. However the fact remains that in such a hypothetical, you are still ending a life, and I do not accept that a gun is a reasonable answer to home defense, especially considering violent burglary is a miniscule happening. For example in 2015, of 7,993,631 property crimes, only 102 of those resulted in death. That is 0.001% of those crimes.
No, I've been quite clear in what I disagree with. Expand on your statement if you can, but those are your words, and as stated in that post that is your solution to gun violence.
Addressing the root causes of crime makes gun ownership to defend against those resulting actions nonsensical and illogical. If crime is drastically reduced by addressing what causes people to commit those crimes, then you have nothing to defend against, and your gun ownership makes you the danger to society.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The irrational part is that he would be more of a danger to himself than the supposed possible hostile robbery. If he lives in a decent neighborhood at all then the biggest threat would be the possible death by suicide that exists with gun ownership. It is just too easy to kill oneself. Again, I lost a friend that way It is takes work to kill yourself using other methods. A gun makes it just too easy. One severe round of depression and a gun may be all that it takes.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Or hell, one overly curious kid that knows where mommy and daddy keep the gun.
Thankfully, no kids died today of gun violence.
Thankfully, no kids died today of gun violence.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
Ok, 102 people died in burglaries. I don't want to be one of them.
I asked for clarification. If you refuse to give it to me then I cannot respond to you. That is not my fault.
How does my gun ownership make me a danger to society? You seem to like stats so there are 81 million people in the US that own guns.
https://americangunfacts.com/gun-ownership-statistics/
There were ~45,000 gun related deaths in the US. If we assume they were all murders/suicide that is ~0.056% people that own guns kills someone or themselves. Why are you worried about my gun?
US gun deaths
Also, if violent robberies are so rare then why are you concerned about my gun? It will never be used and stay locked up in a safe. I am not someone you need to be concerned about owing a gun.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Your own stats tell you that you are afraid of the wrong thing.
Clizby Wampuscat
Well-Known Member
I am not afraid. Just like I am not afraid of getting into a car crash but I still buckle up.