Originally the TOE included the first life form---a simple, one-celled life. DNA blew that error out of the water, so now most evolutionist avoid the first life form guess out of the discussion. It is not Christians who have a problem with abiogenesis, We accept that God did it and most of us do have a problem with a theory that has no real scientific evidence to support it, as all should have. It is the evolutionists that have a problem with abiogenesis because they have no idea what the first one was and their first guess was proven wrong.
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A Challenge To All Creationists
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
Originally the TOE included the first life form---a simple, one-celled life. DNA blew that error out of the water, so now most evolutionist avoid the first life form guess out of the discussion. It is not Christians who have a problem with abiogenesis, We accept that God did it and most of us do have a problem with a theory that has no real scientific evidence to support it, as all should have. It is the evolutionists that have a problem with abiogenesis because they have no idea what the first one was and their first guess was proven wrong.
Actually we know that everything has a cause.
Not true. Everything has a cause, whether we know the cause or not. We also know that something can't create itself out of nothing. That is about as absurd as it gets.
The first thing you need to explain is how something created itself out of nothing.
They are linked together and originally was until the first guess was scientifically proven wrong.
If you don't know what the first life form was, and you don't, you can't say what it evolved into.
Of coursed there is. You said it your self---"Obviously only life can creat life." We have life, therefore there MUST HAVE BEEN a life that got it all started.
Irrelevant. Both must be included in the discussion.
Not true. First life requires coming from non-life.
3. If you're implying the Big Bang, it did not bring life. It brought the ever-expanding universe. If we put the whole "creation" of the universe by way of big bang, etc. in a calendar, life sprang up late in the year.[/QUOTE]
Again irrelevant, especially since there is no evidence to support the BB.
Not improbable, impossible.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
The pertinent question is then "how intelligent"? Birds can make tools too. Humans can make BAD tools.
Which witnesses were there those first six days of Earth? Even God Himself mocks Job for thinking he knows anything about Creation, and I doubt Job listened to modern science.
*going to watch a movie ... Ah'll be bach"
Abiogenesis has nothing to do with DNA either, simple self-replicators existed before DNA, so DNA is also a process of evolution. Anyway, the simple cell abiogenesis talks about didn't have any sort of nucleic acid based replication at all, and don't resemble any simple life that exists today.
The problem with what creationists have a problem with is they very rarely take the time to actually read what the science is about. Choosing instead to stick with strawman or thoroughly out of date science education as if you could criticize neuroscience with phrenology.
Skwim
Veteran Member
If your "it" refers to your post above (#96) then I don't accept it because it's not convincing. Thing is, god isn't important to the operation of evolution. Positing a god or no god doesn't affect it one way or the other. For all that matters to evolution, god can just as well use evolution to put organisms on Earth as not. The issue with creationists is their contention that he couldn't have used such a method because it's not in line with what their Bible says.
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I believe the beginning spoken of in Genesis 1:1 was the beginning of the material universe. As I mentioned previously, the Creator is unique, existing eternally, with no beginning nor end. As Psalm 90:2 affirms regarding Jehovah; "Before the mountains were born Or you brought forth the earth and the productive land, From everlasting to everlasting, you are God." Elsewhere, Jehovah is called "the King of eternity". Thus, IMO, it is clear there is one everlasting Creator of all things. The things he has created demonstrate convincingly, to me at least, that these are the works of a Supreme intellect.
Shad
Veteran Member
No we don't as we do not know everything about the universe. Your statement is in error.
Shad
Veteran Member
False conclusion based on inductive reasoning thus can not be a universal statement. We know of cause as we discover the cause, we do not assume and call it a day.
False conclusion based on the errors point out above and previously. It seems absurd does not mean it is. Also you didn't read my comment but brought up a different subject. My point was about causeless effects not something creating itself from nothing.
Read what you reply to....
"All I needed to do was establish that an event has no known cause thus the claim that "all" events have a cause is in error. Besides you are asking me to prove a negative which I can not, nor anyone, do."
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Shad
Veteran Member
You are clueless regarding the evidence for the BB, educate yourself.
Animore
Active Member
Okay, so let's say that it is the creating of the material universe. Poof, there it is. Nothing. It's simple really. If there is nothing, there is no God at that time. It's a huge cop-out to say that he exists "beyond space and time." If He existed beyond space and time, He wouldn't be interacting with us now. (I'll also say that it's not biblical.)
If you have the time, please watch
It's a video running-down the pat Gods thought of, how it's contradictory to science to have believed in such Gods, how it's scientifically improbable to believe in a Biblical one, how a Big Bang can be possible, etc. It'll answer some of your questions.
Animore
Active Member
Please explain to me oh wise one, how it's impossible. I'd love to see this.
Rational Agnostic
Well-Known Member
I have watched the film. It is interesting, although the gaps in knowledge of Big Bang Cosmology are large, and always will be.
You have absolute4ly no way of knowing that and it is illogical to say DNA is a process. It is illogical for us to KNOW, with few exceptions, that since all living things have DNA to suggest the first one did not.
First you have absolutely no evidence as to what the first life for was. Second no cell is simple, they are all complex because they all contain DNA and finally DNA is so complex, it could not have happened by accident. That would be like a strong wind blowing thru a junk yard and producing a Boeing 707.
Now you are speaking from ignorance. Every one in the public school system for the past 50 years has had the ToE pushed down our throats and if they went to college, the brain washing continued. Even in the 10 grade I spit that kool-ade out and I was not a Christian at that time.