A Christian becomes a nonbeliever

[muhammad_isa]

Go ahed and explain and demonstrate how your idea of God solves anything, and use facts and reason. I predict you will avoid this question.

You are right, I will not attempt to answer the question, as I have done so many times before,
but you are oblivious of the consequences of disbelief.

Atheists have families, and there is no evidence of any afterlife.

On the contrary, we all have a future, and our attitude and behaviour shapes it
along with our families.

 

[F1fan]

You are right, I will not attempt to answer the question, as I have done so many times before,
but you are oblivious of the consequences of disbelief.

What you have done before is ignore the question, and you do it once again, as if your beliefs and claims can't be defended in debate. Too bad your God can't help yuo here either.

On the contrary, we all have a future, and our attitude and behaviour shapes it
along with our families.

This statement doesn't counter what I said. Changing the topic because you can't point to atheists being bad people or parents, or that any afterlife is a real thing?

 

[Kathryn]

If there is a God it seems more realistic to accept that I am totally ignorant about such an entity.
Does God have feelings like love?
Does God care about man?
Is God all-knowing?
So how could I assume to know why God created the world or allows suffering.
The problem is not God so much as man's unwillingness to accept his own ignorance.

You want to believe in a loving God, then just do that. Let go of the need to answer questions you can't.
There are a lot of questions I can't answer. Maybe someday I'll have the information to do so. Now I don't.

Most atheists I talk with have made peace with their ignorance. Why can't theists?

As a theist, I can only speak for myself but I've totally made peace with my ignorance! What I know is a mere thimble full, if that, of total knowledge.

 

[F1fan]

Why do you assume that the universe is rational and must conform with your idea of that?

Of course not, anyone who thinks there is a God and creator are the category of people who assume the universe is rational. Don't you know by now that atheists understand the universe behaving without any moral values, or plan, or destiny, or reason, or purpose? I'm noticing believers (come on, you're already admitted to believing in a god) project their own assumptions and beliefs onto atheists, as you do here. Realize I will take the claims of some theists and explain to them how their thinking is flawed by taking it into consequences or effects they avoid considering. These hypotheticals is NOT me believing. And you seem to be critical of me having any ideas while you have no problem talking about yours. To clarify, me talking about the beliefs and claims of others is NOT me holding those beliefs.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Of course not, anyone who thinks there is a God and creator are the category of people who assume the universe is rational. Don't you know by now that atheists understand the universe behaving without any moral values, or plan, or destiny, or reason, or purpose? I'm noticing believers (come on, you're already admitted to believing in a god) project their own assumptions and beliefs onto atheists, as you do here. Realize I will take the claims of some theists and explain to them how their thinking is flawed by taking it into consequences or effects they avoid considering. These hypotheticals is NOT me believing. And you seem to be critical of me having any ideas while you have no problem talking about yours. To clarify, me talking about the beliefs and claims of others is NOT me holding those beliefs.

Well, we are parts of the universe, so parts of it have moral values. You are doing folk dualism. So start over and check your own thinking.

 

[muhammad_isa]

What you have done before is ignore the question, and you do it once again, as if your beliefs and claims can't be defended in debate..

That lacks any content, other than ad hominem.

Changing the topic because you can't point to atheists being bad people or parents, or that any afterlife is a real thing?

A believer should not live the same life as a disbeliever..
..if they do, then it means they share the same values.

 

[F1fan]

Why do you assume that all creation should serve our comfort?

Like with Mikkel, these are not my beliefs. I am explaining to those who DO believe that the universe was created by a God with humans a special creation that it's odd that humans have to deal with the same harsh circumstances as any other living organism. Some of these believers are suffering and praying to God for relief. What whiney jerks. Don't they think God knows what he's doing? Maybe God gave their kid cancer because they are whiney and need to harden the f*uck up. Of course, since God in the creator and "has a plan for everyone" why create whiney people at all? How does creating children with defects and cancers a teaching moment? How is an environment with eqarthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, etc. a good thing for humans? All God's plan. How does it make sense? It doesn't. It makes more sense to not assume any God, nor humans being anything more than smart apes who have to deal with the hardships of life like any other animal.

You theists offer your beliefs and claims, but no explanations that make sense. And certainly no facts.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That lacks any content, other than ad hominem.


A believer should not live the same life as a disbeliever..
..if they do, then it means they share the same values.

But a believer should live my life, since I am The True Believer and you are Not.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Like with Mikkel, these are not my beliefs. I am explaining to those who DO believe that the universe was created by a God with humans a special creation that it's odd that humans have to deal with the same harsh circumstances as any other living organism. Some of these believers are suffering and praying to God for relief. What whiney jerks. Don't they think God knows what he's doing? Maybe God gave their kid cancer because they are whiney and need to harden the f*uck up. Of course, since God in the creator and "has a plan for everyone" why create whiney people at all? How does creating children with defects and cancers a teaching moment? How is an environment with eqarthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, etc. a good thing for humans? All God's plan. How does it make sense? It doesn't. It makes more sense to not assume any God, nor humans being anything more than smart apes who have to deal with the hardships of life like any other animal.

You theists offer your beliefs and claims, but no explanations that make sense. And certainly no facts.

I am a deist and philosophical at that. As making sense that is subjective in your mind. But you should know that. So try again.

 

[F1fan]

Well, we are parts of the universe, so parts of it have moral values.

The parts with human brains that think for themselves. And the same parts where some assume theior own thoughts come from a God not known to exist. No morals anywhere else is observed.

You are doing folk dualism. So start over and check your own thinking.

Feel free to offer critique to how I think. Your blank challenge means nothing.

 

[F1fan]

I am a deist and philosophical at that. As making sense that is subjective in your mind. But you should know that. So try again.

And with your views comes a lot of assumptions that are not warranted by reason. Your beliefs seem motivated to create a comfortable mental space for your mind. You don't seem willing to look beyond what you assume, or your motives.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The parts with human brains that think for themselves. And the same parts where some assume theior own thoughts come from a God not known to exist. No morals anywhere else is observed.

Feel free to offer critique to how I think. Your blank challenge means nothing.

But it is not in the universe at all. Well, for the bold one that is in the end an emotions. Means is the the brain. Learn when you are subjective.

 

[F1fan]

But it is not in the universe at all. Well, for the bold one that is in the end an emotions. Means is the the brain. Learn when you are subjective.

Oh the irony.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Oh the irony.

Oh, the feeling. Could you try with something else, than the universe has to make sense to you, because you want that to be the case. That is not unlike some theists.

 

[F1fan]

Oh, the feeling. Could you try with something else, than the universe has to make sense to you, because you want that to be the case. That is not unlike some theists.

Your feelings, for sure.

I defer to facts, data, and science to form my understanding of how things are in the universe. Somehow you think a god is included, even though you can't explain how that is fact-based instead of being some obsolete idea that many modern folks still assume is true for personal reasons. You've admitted your belief is for personal reasons. OK, knock yourself out. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Your feelings, for sure.

I defer to facts, data, and science to form my understanding of how things are in the universe. Somehow you think a god is included, even though you can't explain how that is fact-based instead of being some obsolete idea that many modern folks still assume is true for personal reasons. You've admitted your belief is for personal reasons. OK, knock yourself out. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

So everything is objective facts. Well, I learned that differently. Here is a site about that:

Science has limits: A few things that science does not do - Understanding Science

undsci.berkeley.edu

 

[PearlSeeker]

No, a need to feel loved by God is not egocentric. It is just a need some people have, like the need for romantic love from a partner.
Not all people have a need for God's love and not all people have a need for romantic love from a partner. People have different needs.

There are many types of love and ways to express/receive love but this doesn't mean that love is not an universal need. In early period it's even critical for survival.

You studied psychology, right? Are you familiar with the Harlow experiment and the Frederick experiment?

How Harry Harlow's Research on Love Shaped How We Treat Children Today

In his controversial research, Harry Harlow demonstrated the powerful effects of love. Learn about his monkey mother experiment and the impact it had on psychology.

www.verywellmind.com

The Experiment to Discover the Origins of Human Language

One man sought to discover the original human language imparted to Adam and Eve

sajjad-choudhury.medium.com

 

[Trailblazer]

@Father Heathen
@Kathryn
and anyone else who read post #22

I said:
No, I have no pleasant memories of times I enjoyed with my husband, only tormenting memories, which is why I try to live in the present and never look back.

It is true that I have mostly bad memories since the last six or seven years were very bad. There are good memories further back, but I don't care to think of those becaue I see no point mulling over the past and it only causes sadness. In the GriefShare group I attend they say we should think of the 'good times' we had with our loved ones but that does not work for me and it is pointless since those times are gone forever.

I said:
My life has been a holy living hell for at least the last 20 years, and it was no picnic before that.
That is for the most part true.

I said:
The only joy I have now is derived from my cats, and I have no hope for the future.
Most of the joy I have now is derived from the cats, but I also enjoy bird watching, looking at animals in nature, and taking walks in nature, and I like writing and talking to people on here and in other settings.

I was in a bad mood when I said I have no hope for the future and I was overreacting to the post that was posted to me. I realized that later.
I have hope for the future because I have hope in God. What I mean is that since God is in charge of my fate, there is always hope.
If I remain single and never marry again that will be my fate and I will make the best of it, but there is always a chance I will meet and marry a man.
I have some men on the back burner right now and there will always be more. I just have to be patient.

 

[Trailblazer]

What evidence do you find convincing? I know of no evidence? Are you talking about claims people made and wrote them down?

Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah

 

[Trailblazer]

Your personal opinion is also an "ego projection" then.

It is a personal opinion that comes from my religious teachings, not from my ego, so it is not an ego projection.

Also you happen to believe in a religion that tells you messengers are real. So this isn't an opinion at all, it's just a cognitive bias that you have to think. If you didn't think it then you could not believe the religion.

It is not a cognitive bias, it is a religious belief. I 'believe' that messengers are real.

But you don't have evidence, just a claim. I have looked for advanced writing, philosophy, any correct science, future science, any actual prediction, it doesn't exist in those writings.

There are claims and then there is the evidence that support those claims, as delineated in the post I just sent to you above #79.
What is advanced writing is only a matter of personal opinion.
Religion is not philosophy or science, so you won't find those in scriptures.
However, you will find predictions that came true, because that is one thing that prophets do, make accurate predictions.