A Classic Example of an Ethically Bankrupt Religion

[Rolling_Stone]

I can see where kmkemp is coming from. I made a similar statement in the past but put it in a different context. God is being, being itself, not someone in a long white beard sitting on a throne somewhere “out there.” His concerns are not ours nor is he a respecter of persons. And I don’t know about you, but I do not know anyone other than God (whatever you think God to be) who can see the whole picture of what’s really going on and where it’s all headed.

The Holocaust did shock people into realizing what humans are capable of. It did lead to the Jewish state if Israel. The “pride of America” blows up on launch, the “ship God couldn’t sink” sinks on its first voyage, “the pride of Germany” crashes in a great ball of fire, the “thousand year Reich” lasts 10, incredibly bad decisions made that change the course of war. Maybe, just maybe, something is going on we are incapable of seeing or comprehending. Maybe, just maybe, God’s directing hand works almost exclusively through natural laws.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I can see where kmkemp is coming from. I made a similar statement in the past but put it in a different context. God is being, being itself, not someone in a long white beard sitting on a throne somewhere “out there.” His concerns are not ours nor is he a respecter of persons. And I don’t know about you, but I do not know anyone other than God (whatever you think God to be) who can see the whole picture of what’s really going on and where it’s all headed.

The Holocaust did shock people into realizing what humans are capable of. It did lead to the Jewish state if Israel. The “pride of America” blows up on launch, the “ship God couldn’t sink” sinks on its first voyage, “the pride of Germany” crashes in a great ball of fire, the “thousand year Reich” lasts 10, incredibly bad decisions made that change the course of war. Maybe, just maybe, something is going on we are incapable of seeing or comprehending. Maybe, just maybe, God’s directing hand works almost exclusively through natural laws.

:faint:

 

[JayHawes]

I can see where kmkemp is coming from. I made a similar statement in the past but put it in a different context. God is being, being itself, not someone in a long white beard sitting on a throne somewhere “out there.” His concerns are not ours nor is he a respecter of persons. And I don’t know about you, but I do not know anyone other than God (whatever you think God to be) who can see the whole picture of what’s really going on and where it’s all headed.

The Holocaust did shock people into realizing what humans are capable of. It did lead to the Jewish state if Israel. The “pride of America” blows up on launch, the “ship God couldn’t sink” sinks on its first voyage, “the pride of Germany” crashes in a great ball of fire, the “thousand year Reich” lasts 10, incredibly bad decisions made that change the course of war. Maybe, just maybe, something is going on we are incapable of seeing or comprehending. Maybe, just maybe, God’s directing hand works almost exclusively through natural laws.

Amazing:clap, you get a frubal from me.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Take me out, I'm done.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I have to wonder why Jesus said this:

Matthew 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. -NIV

Can't you see that God LOVES even those who hate him? Why would you believe that a loving God would send calamity down on anyone, and especially onto his people?

 

[kmkemp]

I don't understand your post. Was it a response to someone? It seems that if he rains on both the righteous and unrighteous, that indicates that he would send calamity on his own people. Are you questioning your own post or am I missing something?

 

[ChristineES]

Scuba Pete, that was a great verse to bring up! It is true, Jesus said to love those who hate you, that you are not doing anything special to only love those who love you.
The Holocaust was a shame, something that should have never happened. But God did not cause it, men did. God is perfect, men are not. There are other things that people did in "the name of God" that were NOT in the name of God. Just because a person says it is from God, does not necessarily mean that it is true. Being religious means that I have to live with what others did what they said was in the name of God. I know they were not truly done in the name of God because I know the Bible, but others, nontheists, for example think that they were telling the truth. I have more against those who did those evil things in what the said was the name of God and was not than I do with nontheists who believe that really did do these things in the name of God. How can blame the nontheists for that? I can only hope that I can convince them that these things were not condoned by God. I can tell I am not really succeeding with these nontheists here. That makes me sad but not angry.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I don't understand your post. Was it a response to someone? It seems that if he rains on both the righteous and unrighteous, that indicates that he would send calamity on his own people. Are you questioning your own post or am I missing something?

You've never lived on a farm, have you? Neither sun nor rain are anything but DESIRED. You can't grow a crop without them. Yes, there are meteorological events that can cause damage, but they are not caused by God to do a specific harm. They are a product of the world we live in. You can't have the beauty of this world with out having the storms and other meteorological events.

 

[kmkemp]

You've never lived on a farm, have you? Neither sun nor rain are anything but DESIRED. You can't grow a crop without them. Yes, there are meteorological events that can cause damage, but they are not caused by God to do a specific harm. They are a product of the world we live in. You can't have the beauty of this world with out having the storms and other meteorological events.

It seems that you are interpreting the verse literally. I think that that is the wrong way to go with it, but ok.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

It seems that you are interpreting the verse literally. I think that that is the wrong way to go with it, but ok.

Why would we not take it literally when the original audience consists only of people who live off the land?

 

[kmkemp]

Why would we not take it literally when the original audience consists only of people who live off the land?

Because I think it is self-evident that it rains on all people and the sun shines on everything. You don't need to "live off the land" to know that. That is not something that would need to be said unless it was to make a point.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Because I think it is self-evident that it rains on all people and the sun shines on everything. You don't need to "live off the land" to know that. That is not something that would need to be said unless it was to make a point.

You're still taking it literally...

 

[kmkemp]

Ummm, no. Literally would be if I actually thought the sun was referring to the sun and the rain was referring to rain...

 

[ChristineES]

I always took it to mean that the same things will happen to the good and evil and the guilty and innocent.

 

[Scuba Pete]

It seems that you are interpreting the verse literally. I think that that is the wrong way to go with it, but ok.

Not at all... just that both sun and rain are GOOD things and not negative ones.

So tell us how YOU interpret this differently. Do you fell that God is out to do us all harm?

 

[ChristineES]

Rain is a good thing as well as sun. I like walking in rain and in the sun.

 

[kmkemp]

I always took it to mean that the same things will happen to the good and evil and the guilty and innocent.

I concur.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

****Live!****

 

[painted wolf]

"looking for the silver lining" is a common coping stratagy.
Using the Holocaust as a defence of God is a way to protect ones faith by finding a way to get God "off the hook".

never the less lessons come in all shapes... if humanity couldn't learn anything positive from that horror then we as a species are in sorry shape.

wa:do