A Classic Example of an Ethically Bankrupt Religion

[Special Revelation]

Because scripture tells us thus. Nothing happens apart from God's will. If you don't believe that, then we really don't have anything to debate except a difference of faith. If you do believe that, then how can you say that God was not involved if he could have prevented it?

Hey Brother, I support and believe in what you are proclaiming. God's will is always done. However, some Christians do not understand this truth. I think this is due to biblical ignorance or the rejection of the sufficiency of Scripture. Continue to fight the good fight of faith!

 

[kmkemp]

So where can I find this scripture? 1st Opinions? The Gospel according to kmkemp? Please, trot this scripture out so that we may all be encouraged.

I do not feel the need to use the same quote that I've already used multiple times in this very thread again for your benefit. It is not a very good thing to criticize someone if you haven't even read their posts yet.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

So where can I find this scripture? 1st Opinions? The Gospel according to kmkemp? Please, trot this scripture out so that we may all be encouraged.

It's in 2nd assumptions. kmkemp wrote it all by hisself.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I do not feel the need to use the same quote that I've already used multiple times in this very thread again for your benefit. It is not a very good thing to criticize someone if you haven't even read their posts yet.

It's even worse to say that someone misunderstands or has ignored you because they can show why they disagree with you.:foot:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Hey Brother, I support and believe in what you are proclaiming. God's will is always done. However, some Christians do not understand this truth. I think this is due to biblical ignorance or the rejection of the sufficiency of Scripture. Continue to fight the good fight of faith!

So are you implying that the Holocaust was God's will?!

What about the little 8 girl that gets raped in an alley behind a bar in Texas? What about Darfur?

Saying that everything that happens is God's will is just as destructive and thoughtless as it is disguisting.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Hey Brother, I support and believe in what you are proclaiming. God's will is always done. However, some Christians do not understand this truth. I think this is due to biblical ignorance or the rejection of the sufficiency of Scripture. Continue to fight the good fight of faith!

Holy cow I hope no one here mistakes this for Christianity.:foot: :cover:

 

[kmkemp]

That's the point I'm trying to make: That it's idiocy like this that corrupts and bankrupts the religion. As the bumper sticker says, "Feces occurs..." Why can we not just accept that and go on (as Jesus taught in the pillar story alluded to)? Why do we continually have to attempt to ascribe some pathetic, mawkish deific overtone to every bad thing that happens?

Because scripture tells us thus. Nothing happens apart from God's will. If you don't believe that, then we really don't have anything to debate except a difference of faith. If you do believe that, then how can you say that God was not involved if he could have prevented it?

 

[Scuba Pete]

How about just the scripture reference. I have a Bible and I know how to use it!

I do not feel the need to use the same quote that I've already used multiple times in this very thread again for your benefit. It is not a very good thing to criticize someone if you haven't even read their posts yet.

 

[kmkemp]

How about just the scripture reference. I have a Bible and I know how to use it!

"Are not two sparrows sold for only a penny? But your Father knows when any one of them
falls to the ground. Even the hairs on your
head are counted. So don't be afraid!
You are worth much more than many
sparrows. "
Matthew 10:29-31


We can gather from this that God is omniscient. I am assuming that you also believe He is omnipotent. So, if he knows about it and has the power to stop it, but doesn't, then He is responsible for it.

 

[Reverend Rick]

If people have a problem with what is and what is not God's will they are trying to judge a God.

Sodom and gomorrah
Noah's flood
tribulation period
judgement day

Past and present, you will have a cow.

 

[Scuba Pete]

We can gather from this that God is omniscient. I am assuming that you also believe He is omnipotent. So, if he knows about it and has the power to stop it, but doesn't, then He is responsible for it.

Your concept of omniscient is far below my concept. I don't think God knows HOW we are going to act and there is nothing in the Scriptures to indicate that he does, except that he has a GREAT understanding of human nature (he designed us after all). And no, I don't buy into this omnipotent deal until God tells me otherwise. Do you have a scriptural reference?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

If people have a problem with what is and what is not God's will they are trying to judge a God.

Sodom and gomorrah
Noah's flood
tribulation period
judgement day

Past and present, you will have a cow.

This does not mean that everything that happens is actively willed by God.

 

[Reverend Rick]

This does not mean that everything that happens is actively willed by God.

Exactly right. It's not for us to speculate and judge. I have to say however all this love and peace is only one side of Christianity. The wrath of God is not a pretty thing and so many people want to discount that.

 

[kmkemp]

More perspective:

http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource...ate/2005/1304_Was_Katrina_Intelligent_Design/

Highlights: "But God commits no crimes when he brings famine, flood, and pestilence on the earth. “Does disaster come to a city, unless the Lord has done it?” (Amos 3:6). The answer of the prophet is no. God’s own testimony is the same: “I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things” (Isaiah 45:7). And if we ask, is there intelligent design in it all, the Bible answers: “You meant evil . . . but God meant it [designed it] for good” (Genesis 50:20)."

 

[kmkemp]

Your concept of omniscient is far below my concept. I don't think God knows HOW we are going to act and there is nothing in the Scriptures to indicate that he does, except that he has a GREAT understanding of human nature (he designed us after all). And no, I don't buy into this omnipotent deal until God tells me otherwise. Do you have a scriptural reference?

Well, the logic you have just brought forth, I think, is enough to suppose that God knows what we are going to do. Have you not read the verses that indicate God is removed from time? Foreknowledge is a fairly widespread belief. I would have to do a little research to find the verses that support it. Are you not familiar with this teaching?

These verses support omnipotence:
Matthew 19:26
Deuteronomy 32:36-42; particularly the end of verse 39

 

[angellous_evangellous]

More perspective:

http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource...ate/2005/1304_Was_Katrina_Intelligent_Design/

Highlights: "But God commits no crimes when he brings famine, flood, and pestilence on the earth. “Does disaster come to a city, unless the Lord has done it?” (Amos 3:6). The answer of the prophet is no. God’s own testimony is the same: “I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things” (Isaiah 45:7). And if we ask, is there intelligent design in it all, the Bible answers: “You meant evil . . . but God meant it [designed it] for good” (Genesis 50:20)."

It's amazing to me that something like this can be attractive to people.

EDIT: One has to make more than one error in logic, biblical interpretation, and Christian theology to relate these bible verses to Katrina.

First of all, Piper erronously presupposes Calvinism as an adequate interpretative model for understanding these verses, which is a heck of a presupposition because this system is compeltely foreign to Christianity. Calvin aside, Piper is doing an exceptionally poor job in interpreting these verses. In Isaiah, there is no implication that God brings about every calamity, but merely that he does bring about some. Genesis 50.20 is quoting Joseph with reference to his brothers' activities and this has nothing to do with anything that Piper addresses.

None of these verses presuppose that God is active in all situations - that God causes destruction on all cities. Amos 3 cannot possibly be applicable to New Orleans simply because it is a city - the author clearly has in mind cities only within his area and destroyed by God as revealed to him. He only knows of a finite number of cities.

 

[Special Revelation]

Your concept of omniscient is far below my concept. I don't think God knows HOW we are going to act and there is nothing in the Scriptures to indicate that he does, except that he has a GREAT understanding of human nature (he designed us after all). And no, I don't buy into this omnipotent deal until God tells me otherwise. Do you have a scriptural reference?

Hey Scuba,

I think you would be edified in the Faith if did a personal study on the attributes of God. How big is your God? Your view of God appears to fall way short of the God revealed in Scripture alone. I recommend that you start with the book "KNOWING GOD" by JI Packer. If you find that book edifying, read "The Sovereignty of God" by Arthur Pink. All of these men write within the context of orthodox Christianity, using biblical exegetical reasoning to support their conclusions.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I think you would be edified in the Faith if did a personal study on the attributes of God.

I have and I will. I don't find the scriptures EVER using omnipotent or omniscient. Do you? Perhaps a study of your own is in order so you can determine this on your own.

How big is your God?

How irrelevant is your question? Do you fall for the fallacious view that somehow size matters?

Your view of God appears to fall way short of the God revealed in Scripture alone.

You say this because I refuse to attribute some things to God that not even the scriptures attribute to him? Who is REALLY being scriptural here, my friend?

I recommend that you start with the book "KNOWING GOD" by JI Packer.

Sorry, but I will continue to allow the Spirit to guide me into understanding by reading the scriptures. Feel free to continue to hold to the precepts of men.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Do you fall for the fallacious view that somehow size matters?

"I see your scwhartz is as big as mine!"

If Spaceballs taught us anything, it's that in the battle between good and evil, it's not size that matters... it's how you use it...

 

[Scuba Pete]

Well, the logic you have just brought forth, I think, is enough to suppose that God knows what we are going to do. Have you not read the verses that indicate God is removed from time? Foreknowledge is a fairly widespread belief. I would have to do a little research to find the verses that support it. Are you not familiar with this teaching?

These verses support omnipotence:
Matthew 19:26
Deuteronomy 32:36-42; particularly the end of verse 39

You are MISSING the point. Up until such time as the Scriptures use these terms to describe God, I will refrain from using them as well. I won't go putting words in God's mouth.