A great day for the People's Republic's new leader of NY Communist Party!

[F1fan]

Yeah...as though the left is very different...chock full of sympathy
for victims of police violence (while doing nothing to change it),
for the homeless who are continually evicted from their living
arrangements, for the poor who pay high payroll & property taxes,
for people subject to crime (while trying to keep them from owning
guns for self defense), etc, etc. Those in glass houses, ya know.

Left vs right....you guys really ought'a stop trying to see only the
worst in each other. Recognize some political differences about
how to solve problems.

The left is quite different, and I'm not quite sure how you have missed the vast division between the parties these days. Maybe you are confusing politics before Reagan. In the Nixon era you could find democrats and republicans that areed on quite a bit. Today? Not the same at all except they all have a pulse.

 

[Revoltingest]

Are you talking about "the left" or the Democratic party? Because I'm pretty sure people on "the left" have been working towards police reform, widening social safety nets, and addressing the systemic issues which lead to crime.

Democrats have done darn little to reform policing.
All the hard lifting is being done by victims & auditors.

I mean, of the two leading political parties, which party do you think handles these things better, currently? Republicans or Democrats?

To say who's better or worse is very dependent upon the
goals of the person judging. But that's unnecessary to note
that both sides are abusive to segments of the populace.
When each demonizes the other, they should consider
& overcome their own shortcomings.

 

[Revoltingest]

The left is quite different, and I'm not quite sure how you have missed the vast division between the parties these days. Maybe you are confusing politics before Reagan. In the Nixon era you could find democrats and republicans that areed on quite a bit. Today? Not the same at all except they all have a pulse.

Sure, they're different.
But not by as much as each side believes.
Perhaps your tribalism blinds you to sins in your own party?

 

[Revoltingest]

One question, dear.
Why do you have to bring up Fascism, even if the topic is Communism?


There is an obsession with our history..

Because communism & fascism are fellow travelers.
To ban private ownership of all property (both personal
& the means of production) necessitates a highly
authoritarian government. And this has been so even
in the stage preceding communism, ie, socialism (the
kind that eschews capitalism).

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Democrats have done darn little to reform policing.
All the hard lifting is being done by victims & auditors.

They've certainly not done as much as they could have, but them's the Democrats, and the Democrats aren't "the left".

Also, they have been introducing police reform. And those police reforms were pulled for almost exclusively by the few left-wing elements within the Democratic party.

Hell, even the Wiki page for the recent push for police reform explicitly calls it a "left-wing political movement":

Police reform in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

To say who's better or worse is very dependent upon the
goals of the person judging.

Based on the things you listed. Which party handles homelessness, police reform, social safety nets and crime better?

But that's unnecessary to note
that both sides are abusive to segments of the populace.
When each demonizes the other, they should consider
& overcome their own shortcomings.

Right. But that doesn't mean that one party isn't significantly better at doing generally "good" things than the other.

I'm not a big fan of "both sidsing" when one party is just a generally ineffectual party of liberals who are nonetheless at least making token efforts to enact legislative changes to improve people's lives, and the other is doing everything it can to make everything worse.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

To ban private ownership of all property (both personal
& the means of production) necessitates a highly
authoritarian government.

Please present me with a definition of Communism which specifies it requires the banning of all private personal property.

 

[Revoltingest]

They've certainly not done as much as they could have, but them's the Democrats, and the Democrats aren't "the left".

They are on the left side of the aisle.
So let's not try to escape responsibility with the No-True-Lefty fallacy.

Also, they have been introducing police reform.

Introducing very very little.
Only a few states are curbing qualified liability.
And none are raising standards for hiring, training,
monitoring, & sanctioning illegal behavior of cops.

Based on the things you listed. Which party handles homelessness, police reform, social safety nets and crime better?

Both handle it badly.
Let's not take refuge in....
"We're bad, but they're worse."

Right. But that doesn't mean that one party isn't significantly better at doing generally "good" things than the other.

I'm not a big fan of "both sidsing" when one party is just a generally ineffectual party of liberals who are nonetheless at least making token efforts to enact legislative changes to improve people's lives, and the other is doing everything it can to make everything worse.

But you are a big fan of using the "but they're worse" apologetics.
So I'm disgusted by sanctimonious Democrats feigning sainthood
when demonizing Republicans as the sole problem.

 

[Revoltingest]

Please present me with a definition of Communism which specifies it requires the banning of all private personal property.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

Excerpted....
a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.
(often initial capital letter) a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party.

Communism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Excerpted....
Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement,[1] whose goal is the establishment of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society.[3][4][5] Communist society also involves the absence of private property,[1].....

 

[ImmortalFlame]

They are on the left side of the aisle.

They're centrist at best with some left-wing elements.

So let's not try to escape responsibility with the No-True-Lefty fallacy.

It's not a fallacy. The democrats are a liberal party, not a left-wing party.

Introducing very very little.
Only a few states are curbing qualified liability.
And none are raising standards for hiring, training,
monitoring, & sanctioning illegal behavior of cops.

And the states that are? Are they Democrat-run states or Republican-run states?

Both handle it badly.
Let's not take refuge in....
"We're bad, but they're worse."

How's that a refuge? It's a perfectly legitimate to say "This car has quite a few miles on it and the seats are uncomfortable, but this other car is literally on fire, so I think I'd prefer to drive the first one".

This isn't cope. It's basic logic. Pointing out "both bad" is pointless if you ignore THE DEGREES to which each are bad when you're stuck in a two-party system.

But you are a big fan of using the "but they're worse" apologetics.

It's not apologetics. I've always been open about the flaws of the Democratic party. It's just a fact that the Republicans are worse, and trying to equate the two to pretend you have some kind of heightened centrism is dishonest.

So I'm disgusted by sanctimonious Democrats feigning sainthood
when demonizing Republicans as the sole problem.

Cool, you be mad about that.

I care about policies.

 

[Estro Felino]

Because communism & fascism are fellow travelers.
To ban private ownership of all property (both personal
& the means of production) necessitates a highly
authoritarian government. And this has been so even
in the stage preceding communism, ie, socialism (the
kind that eschews capitalism).

I understand.
But apparently all politologists say that fascism and communism are poles apart.
So the topic here is the NY Communist Party which has surely a program, and I guess that program doesn't include an authoritarian drift.

 

[Revoltingest]

They're centrist at best with some left-wing elements.

They're still to the left of Republicans.
Quibbling over labels is needless mischief.

It's not a fallacy. The democrats are a liberal party, not a left-wing party.


And the states that are? Are they Democrat-run states or Republican-run states?


How's that a refuge? It's a perfectly legitimate to say "This car has quite a few miles on it and the seats are uncomfortable, but this other car is literally on fire, so I think I'd prefer to drive the first one".

It's still deflecting from Democrats failing to
do much of anything for police reform.
The "We're not as bad as they are" defense
is dumb.

This isn't cope. It's basic logic. Pointing out "both bad" is pointless if you ignore THE DEGREES to which each are bad when you're stuck in a two-party system.


It's not apologetics. I've always been open about the flaws of the Democratic party. It's just a fact that the Republicans are worse, and trying to equate the two to pretend you have some kind of heightened centrism is dishonest.


Cool, you be mad about that.

I care about policies.

I've nothing to add.

 

[Revoltingest]

I understand.
But apparently all politologists say that fascism and communism are poles apart.

Fans of socialism & communism know that their regimes
are authoritarian. But they don't want to be called "fascist"
because that sounds so much worse. So they invoke the
No-True-Fascist fallacy by mischievously narrowing the
definition of "fascist" to not include their dream economies.

So the topic here is the NY Communist Party which has surely a program, and I guess that program doesn't include an authoritarian drift.

To ban private ownership of property is authoritarianism of the most extreme kind.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

They're still to the left of Republicans.
Quibbling over labels is needless mischief.

Sure, but claiming they're "the left" is its own brand of mischief, is it not? You wouldn't call Mussloni "the left" just because he was less right-wing than Hitler, right?

It's still deflecting from Democrats failing to
do much of anything for police reform.

But they're the party doing what little is being done, so equating the two parties on the issue is dishonest. One party is doing SOMETHING, the other is doing NOTHING, so if it's MORE that you want which party do you think are likely to give you more?

The "We're not as bad as they are" defense
is dumb.

Seriously? You think pointing out that between an overweight cat and a feral tiger with rabies, the choice should be for the pet that is less likely to violently maul you to death is dumb?

 

[Revoltingest]

Sure, but claiming they're "the left" is its own brand of mischief, is it not? You wouldn't call Mussloni "the left" just because he was less right-wing than Hitler, right?


But they're the party doing what little is being done, so equating the two parties on the issue is dishonest. One party is doing SOMETHING, the other is doing NOTHING, so if it's MORE that you want which party do you think are likely to give you more?


Seriously? You think pointing out that between an overweight cat and a feral tiger with rabies, the choice should be for the pet that is less likely to violently maul you to death is dumb?

It seems that you want to bicker over definitions & "they're worse" arguments.
I've nothing to add.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

It seems that you want to bicker over definitions & "they're worse" arguments.
I've nothing to add.

So, to be clear, you think both political parties are exactly the same and neither is worse nor better than the other in any way?

Continue chugging that "enlightened centrist" hash. I live in reality.

 

[Revoltingest]

So, to be clear, you think both political parties are exactly the same....

I think you know that this claim is bogus.
Try to understand instead of bicker.
Then your posts could be interesting.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I think you know that this claim is bogus.

Right, so you agree that one party is better - at least, in some ways - than the other, so your both-sidsing is very counter-productive, right? And pointing this out isn't some kind of dishonest ploy - it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do in a two-party system.

Try to understand instead of bicker.

You're the one who came out accusing the left of doing nothing. I'm just pointing out that your framing was dishonest.

Then your posts could be interesting.

By "interesting" you mean "making me look good rather than bad", right?

 

[Revoltingest]

Right, so you agree that one party is better - at least, in some ways - than the other, so your both-sidsing is very counter-productive, right? And pointing this out isn't some kind of dishonest ploy - it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do in a two-party system.


You're the one who came out accusing the left of doing nothing. I'm just pointing out that your framing was dishonest.


By "interesting" you mean "making me look good rather than bad", right?

Bless your heart.

 

[Yerda]

Communist fascism isn't though.
(Using "fascism" broadly to include all severe authoritarian governments.)

Fair play, I'll give you that, too.

 

[tytlyf]

Nope. It's a direct call to demonstrate how communism is attempting to take over the country by socialist Marxist people involved in politics.

Thanks for the laugh!