Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Well I wish it was laughable, except the Communist party in NY is a serious threat to anyone who desires to live in a free society which obviously isn't the People's Republic of NY.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
A great day for the People's Republic's new leader of NY Communist Party!
- Thread starter Twilight Hue
- Start date
tytlyf
Not Religious
A threat? People are allowed to have their own viewpoints in America.
The Republican party is a bigger threat to America and you don't care.
Your priorities are out of whack.
Just keep allowing your bizarre media choices to manipulate your emotions.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
0t
Clearly some have come out of the closet.
There's a reason the Communist Control Act was passed into law by Eisenhower before the Democrats became closet communists themselves masquerading as socialists.
Clearly some have come out of the closet.
tytlyf
Not Religious
So if it's already banned, why are you scared to death?
The commies are still a tiny minority.
But the anti-capitalists are increasing their ranks.
And as many socialists here have told me, socialism
is just a stage before moving to communism.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That quote is pretty much the words of Marx himself. Essentially communism is a higher form of socialism.
That warning is pretty bizarre stated their new senior official, essentially anyone opposing their political agenda will be met with an "unkind" retaliation.
What the hell does that imply?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Maybe because it didn't spike their blood pressure?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'm more angry it isn't being enforced.
exchemist
Veteran Member
My father who, as the son of a missionary, was born in pre-communist China and who was later to be a lifelong conservative voter, always maintained that communism did an enormous amount of good to improve the lot of the poor in China, in the early days. Of course it then morphed into disastrous totalitarianism under the Great Leap Forward etc, but people today have no conception of how miserable the lives of many people were before communism.
Or they're loath to make embarrass their own side?
I live in NY and, trust me, the Communist party is hardly "a serious threat" here. "Over the last decade, more New York voters are registered as political independents — unaligned with any of the major or minor parties on the ballot." As reported by the State Board of Elections and quoted in NY news.
As for "anyone who desires to live in a free society," I feel much more free living in New York than I would in any of those states that are becoming increasingly authoritarian thanks to their MAGA-minded, Conservative Republican governors.
You just painted all communists with the same brush by saying they're "worse than" white supremacists. Do you realize that there are communists who are against the existence of a state to begin with? And communists who don't believe in forcibly imposing that system on people but instead merely see it as an ideal end goal?
And before you ask, yes, I've talked to quite a few communists with those beliefs. Most are not supportive of Bolsheviks, Mao, Pol Pot, or Kim Il Sung. What you said above is both an overgeneralization about and mischaracterization of their positions. I'm not a communist myself, but I don't see them as some monolithic group who all sing the praises of Bolsheviks or Mao.
Many communists don't believe in banning private ownership of all property either. I'm not sure from where you got that idea.
They are worse.
Communism is the worst of socialism (the kind that bands capitalism)
on steroids....hideous authoritarianism, deadly purges, mass starvation.
Are you painting all white supremacists with the same width of brush?
To be against a state's existence is to advocate lawlessness.
In what countries has that ever worked well?
Communists, like white supremacists, both believe that they'll
achieve some lofty goal. But the reality of both is oppression.
Whether they're deluded in their belief of a utopia, or they
intend oppression makes no difference. To favor evil is still evil.
I know communists, socialists, white supremacists.
All believe they have noble goals.
But all pursue agendas with terrible results.
That runs counter to the definition of communism.
Perhaps the communists you know fail to understand
either their chosen label, or what communism is, eh.
Communism - Wikipedia
Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement,[1] whose goal is the establishment of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society.[3][4][5] Communist society also involves the absence of private property,[1] social classes, money,...
I'm assuming you're talking about Marxism-Leninism, but a lot of communists aren't Leninists or supporters of any of the Bolsheviks.
All white supremacists, by definition, believe in the supremacy of one race, so that description is both fair and accurate.
Not necessarily. I find anarchy extremely unrealistic, but the idea is far from exclusive to some communists, and many anarchists posit extensive ideas about combating things like crime and disorder without the need for a state. I disagree with them, but to say that they all advocate lawlessness oversimplifies anarchism.
I'm assuming that, as above, you're probably talking about Marxism-Leninism, just one subset of communism (albeit the most notorious one due to its proliferation throughout the 20th century). What you said doesn't reflect communists who don't believe in violent revolution or forced imposition of the system on the population. (As I said, those do exist.)
This may be relevant reading here as one example out of many of what I'm talking about:
Pacifist Socialist Party - Wikipedia
I haven't talked to any communists who have personally pursued any agendas in the real world and only few who would support doing so violently or oppressively. The latter are usually termed "tankies" in left-leaning circles, which is a pejorative for pro-USSR socialists and communists. The fact that there's a pejorative term for that position within leftist circles should tell you about the amount of disagreement and heterogeneity therein.
That runs counter to the definition of communism.
Perhaps the communists you know fail to understand
either their chosen label, or what communism is, eh.
Excerpted...Communism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal')[1][2] is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology within the socialist movement,[1] whose goal is the establishment of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society.[3][4][5] Communist society also involves the absence of private property,[1] social classes, money,...
There have been many books written about different communist ideologies in the course of more than a century. I don't know why or how you think some brief definition from Wikipedia can encompass all of those.
Nevertheless, I doubt I'll be telling any of the communists I've talked to that they need to be more violent or authoritarian in order to be "True Communists."
Take your pick of any socialist / communist country (ie, banning
capitalism). If the end result is always hideous, then to advocate
the same system is to advocate what has always happened.
Doing the same thing over & over again, each time expecting a
different result is bonkers.
If we can't use any standard definitions of "socialism", "communism",
or "capitalism", how can you argue based upon your definitions of
"white supremacism". Do you even know any, which would allow
you to understand their diversity of beliefs?
If you recognize diversity of belief in your favored systems, why not
do the same for white supremacists. After all, not all believe the same
regarding coercion, superiority, separation, & form of government.
I speak of every form of socialism / communism (ie, non-capitalist)
that has ever been tried in the real world. Whether they conform
to Marxist, Leninst, or other doctrines, the results have no significant
differences.
I perused your link.This may be relevant reading here as one example out of many of what I'm talking about:
Pacifist Socialist Party - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
It doesn't really address communism....other than
things like former communist party members who
left the party.
Not all leftists are communists, so leftists who look
askance at commies aren't really going to justify
a claimed kinder gentler communism.
Once again, we face the problem that to fans of socialism
& communism, those terms have no definitions other than
ad hoc personal ones. Oddly, they sure do have very
specific complaints about capitalism, none of which relate
to its definition either.
I don't say that fans of communism are personally violent.
Only that what they advocate inexorably leads to violence,
oppression, & economic failure.
Similarly, white supremacists aren't all violent. But what
they advocate leads to great wrongs. What's different?
Socialists / communists have the record of the greatest
oppression & death.
BTW, it's silly that on RF I need to distinguish between
socialism that's anti-capitalist vs socialism that's
pro-capitalist. But so it goes when definitions are
all personal, & dictionaries are out of fashion.
Last edited:
We've been over this many times before, so I won't really go into it again. In a nutshell, all of the major examples of countries claiming to be socialist or communist in the 20th century were based on Marxism-Leninism or some offshoot thereof (e.g., Stalinism or Maoism). They still don't reflect the views of communists and socialists who support other varieties of communism.
Find me a single white supremacist ideology that doesn't believe in the supremacy of one race above others and then your argument might hold water. Otherwise it's just a misplaced comparison.
See above.
Again, see above. Every single one of the major examples that have been tried has been Marxist-Leninist or a variant of that specific ideology. There are indeed significant differences between Marxism-Leninism and numerous other socialist and communist ideologies.
It also mentions socialists and communists who disagreed with each other because some of them were pacifists. That certainly doesn't align with the narrative that all communists are proponents of violence and Bolshevik totalitarianism.
Many leftists who criticize "tankies" are themselves socialists or communists.
Have you been in any leftist circles before and talked to people there to gauge the diversity of opinion therein?
Most people who recognize the diversity within umbrella terms don't see any "problem" with this to begin with. It would make little sense to speak of Christianity, Hinduism, or Buddhism as some monolithic set of beliefs because of how encompassing they are. The same applies to communism and socialism.
That depends on the beliefs of those communists and what they advocate. The broad brush doesn't work here.
See above. I've responded to this multiple times in this and other posts.
It's not necessarily "pro-capitalist"; it's just that not all socialists advocate for forcibly or abruptly abolishing capitalism.
And if you try to have these discussions within any leftist circles at some point, you'll often see the same need to distinguish between different forms of socialism when talking about such issues, because they don't all agree on everything as your generalizations might seem to imply.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Then you know the stranglehold of NYC over the rest of the state.
It's a cesspool of pro communist people and has the history to show for it. Keep in mind Greenwich.
Red Century
Exploring the history and legacy of Communism, 100 years after the Russian Revolution.
Opinion | When New York City Was the Capital of American Communism (Published 2017)
From cooperative parties in the Bronx to the Lower East Side unions, the Big Apple was once a vibrant center for the left.
Previous attempts have all just gotten it wrong, eh.
Some are merely separatists.
But again, this is deflection from the issue that white
supremacists, socialists & other anti-capitalists pursue
agendas with evil results. And unlike you, I find the
anti-capitalists to have done far far more harm.
The ideologies that seem so different to you still involve
the same tools, ie, an authoritarian regime is necessary
to prevent capitalism & owning private property.
A pacifist communist is like a pacifist white supremacist,
ie, it's an individual value/view that won't translate into
a government.
Oh, have I.
I spent 5 years at U of Mich, which is in the People's Republic Of Ann Arbor.
How many white supremacists have you conversed with IRL?
You sure do claim diversity in groups you like.
But no matter that, people who advocate elimination
of capitalism & private property are advocating evil.
This is just as white supremacy is evil....but it lacks
the record of death & woe of anti-capitalists.
This is already to repetitive.
I've nothing to add.
Then you know the stranglehold of NYC over the rest of the state.
It's a cesspool of pro communist people and has the history to show for it. Keep in mind Greenwich.
Red Century
Exploring the history and legacy of Communism, 100 years after the Russian Revolution.www.nytimes.com
Opinion | When New York City Was the Capital of American Communism (Published 2017)
From cooperative parties in the Bronx to the Lower East Side unions, the Big Apple was once a vibrant center for the left.www.nytimes.com
Nonsense.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
No it's not. It's actual history.