A Letter to Donald Trump

[Revoltingest]

A woman can and some may actually cry wolf and claim rape to avoid paying the tax. It's certainly possible. It's just not probable. This would place the woman in very very severe legal situations. False police reports, investigations, invasive medical examinations not to mention the stigma, doubt, and shame that typically follows woman who reports a rape. Is this truly worth going through just to be deceptive? I mean having this accusation permanently attached to them for life and all the criminal risks involved just to save $15 - $20 a week ... Seriously? Although some woman would might maybe do this, the possible criminal charges, jail time, investigations, invasive medical examinations, and the stigma attached would deter the vast majority. Hell, more than half of woman who are raped don't report it and you really think they'd do so deceptively and face all the above to save $15 - $20 bucks a week?

You're arguing that this scenario of false rape accusation would be improbable.
I agree. But that it would happen at all....even a small percentage of the time is
just another injustice heaped upon your plan of punitive taxation.

 

[Revoltingest]

For you, perhaps

For many millions of us.

Of course, I do recognize that there are also a great many who love the expansion of government spending, taxation & authority over us..
Politics is all about opinions & values.
No one has THE TRUTH.

 

[Marisa]

Who I'm selling to isn't what was personal. The attack on my person was. Those who have no income wouldn't be taxed. Those who do, would. If you have little income, then it would further necessitate even greater measures to be taken to prevent a pregnancy. Poverty is not an excuse to make bad decisions. That's a cop out. Stopping people from getting abortions isn't the goal. I've already stated my stance on the privacy issue. What's the basic right and how exactly would the proposal infringe on it?

Those who don't have enough income to be taxed make up half to the majority of those who obtain abortion. That's what Dust1n has been valiantly trying to explain to you. Your "tax" is just another attack on poor people, which will do nothing to curtail the number of abortions performed annually. Attacking POVERTY is the best method, hand in hand with accessible contraceptives. Those methods have proven track record of reducing abortions, but do go on ahead and pay nothing more than lip service to the only facts which exist in the conversation of reducing abortion.

 

[Marisa]

In the mean time we can encourage pregnancy prevention through tax incentives. This doesn't address abortion directly, only prevention of unwanted pregnancy. This isn't about ending abortion, but rather encouraging more responsible behavior. This has nothing to do with morality, only to help ease the pangs that are a result of unwanted pregnancies.

The best method of encouraging pregnancy prevention and, BTW, reduction in STD/STI infection rates, is through . . . . wait for it . . . . accessible contraceptives and comprehensive sex education.

 

[Marisa]

"The HIPAA rules provide a wide variety of circumstances under which medical information can be disclosed for law enforcement-related purposes without explicitly requiring a warrant. These circumstances include (1) law enforcement requests for information to identify or locate a suspect, fugitive, witness, or missing person (2) instances where there has been a crime committed on the premises of the covered entity, and (3) in a medical emergency in connection with a crime.

In other words, law enforcement is entitled to your records simply by asserting that you are a suspect or the victim of a crime."

I work in mental health. Do allow me to educate you to a few things regarding HIPAA. What you described above does not allow for the release of medical information. Law enforcement does not need to know the details of why you saw your doctor last in order to locate you, they need an address and phone number. Basic skip tracing. There are a lot of questions that can be asked and answered to help locate a potential fugitive without divulging the contents of the patient's health care notes. In mental health, where I work, we take patient privacy extremely seriously because we are mental health. Your family doctor, I guarantee you, does not take HIPAA as seriously as we do. We will not release any medical information about the patient without that patient's consent or a court order. GP's are forever calling us and requesting records, citing "continuity of care" as their reason why they need those records. Mental health won't do it. The only other medical specialty I've yet come across which takes HIPAA as seriously as we do is OB/Gyn. The SCOTUS has ruled that patients have a right to medical privacy. Like so many other facts present in this conversation, I'm sorry that sucks the wind out of your taxation sails.

 

[Marisa]

You're arguing that this scenario of false rape accusation would be improbable.
I agree. But that it would happen at all....even a small percentage of the time is
just another injustice heaped upon your plan of punitive taxation.

If it happens just one time, right?

 

[Marisa]

For you, perhaps

Isn't it wonderful that when abortion is safe and legal, every man and woman is allowed the same freedom to make that choice that you and I enjoy? I think it's fabulous.

 

[Revoltingest]

Isn't it wonderful that when abortion is safe and legal, every man and woman is allowed the same freedom to make that choice that you and I enjoy? I think it's fabulous.

We must be ever vigilant though, because there's always someone ready to put government's boot on yer neck.

 

[Marisa]

We must be ever vigilant though, because there's always someone ready to put government's boot on yer neck.

You watch the gubment, I'll watch those demon corporations. Deal?

 

[Revoltingest]

You watch the gubment, I'll watch those demon corporations. Deal?

Deal!

You would take the easier of the two though.

 

[Marisa]

Deal!

You would take the easier of the two though.

That's debatable.


Move over Elizabeth Warren, your pit bull is on her way with a real life Libertarian's permission to be all up in Wall Street's bizness!

 

[Underhill]

Deal!

You would take the easier of the two though.

I think the majority of the time the two are one and the same. Government brought to by Halliburton, GE and JP Morgan....

 

[ZenMonkey]

Those who don't have enough income to be taxed make up half to the majority of those who obtain abortion. That's what Dust1n has been valiantly trying to explain to you. Your "tax" is just another attack on poor people, which will do nothing to curtail the number of abortions performed annually. Attacking POVERTY is the best method, hand in hand with accessible contraceptives. Those methods have proven track record of reducing abortions, but do go on ahead and pay nothing more than lip service to the only facts which exist in the conversation of reducing abortion.

I've stated at least 5 times in this thread that birth control should be free. I don't discriminate, which is why I won't allow you to use poverty as an excuse for poor behavior. Poverty has no bearing on responsibility. Also, I support a woman's right to choose. My contention is the selfishness associated in abortions performed for the purpose of not disrupting a lifestyle. I commend planned parenthood for the preventative measures they take to reduce unwanted pregnancies. We need more of that being discussed and campaigned across the board. There are many ways to prevent unwanted pregnancy. One of which is not engaging in activity that could result in one. Another is better education. Another are contraceptives, which should be free. Furthermore, I suggest you 1. Follow the lines of reason to logical conclusions. 2. Quit sugar coating the issue and be HONEST!

I support human rights. A woman has a right to decide what happens to her body. She should not be forced to give birth against her will. Abortion is the most abhorrent practice this nation has ever had to tolerate for sake of human rights. The choice should be honored, the practice of abortion abhorred. It is absolutely the most selfish act a person can make when the determining factor to abort is to maintain a lifestyle. I understand medical necessity, rape, and incest but not convenience. The only valid solution to this issue is to demand greater responsibility and require accountability when an abortion is chosen. We can't force a woman to give birth against her will. We just can't, which is why abortion is legal.

Better preventative measures need to be utilized. The reality and severity of abortion needs to be seared in the minds of this nations citizens. This issue needs to remain on the forefront and addressed by the media daily. Free birth control needs to be made available. Abstinence needs to be encouraged in light of the selfishness involved in having sex when a human life is in the balance. Double this when absolutely unwilling to birth a child. If not willing to abstain, then the use of contraceptives need to be demanded by both parties for the sheer reason human lives are at stake. Parents ... educate your children and quit tip toeing around the issue. Tell it like it is and make no apologies. It comes down to being responsible, making better decisions, and not being so got dammed selfish and fearful.

The issue needs a new direction, otherwise we're just gonna keep beating our heads against brick walls. I'll continue to honor human rights. I will continue to support both choice and life. I think that demanding responsibility and accountability when an abortion is chosen for convenience is needed. Pregnancy prevention is the only valid solution to this issue. Prevention needs to be demanded and accountability required. Those who fail to meet these very basic and easy things to achieve and choose abortion to maintain a lifestyle need to be taxed. Call it an incentive to be more responsible. Reduce and/or eliminate unwanted pregnancies and no one would abort for sake of not disrupting a lifestyle. Prevention is the solution, incentives to spur responsible behavior will help.

 

[ZenMonkey]

You may be correct. I've read a few articles suggesting it isn't, but you may be right. You're apparently in the field so I'll believe you. A warrant may very well be needed. It doesn't matter a great deal. Not signing the release is probable cause to suspect tax evasion, which is cause to secure a warrant.

 

[Marisa]

I've stated at least 5 times in this thread that birth control should be free.

And as far as methods to reduce the number of abortions is concerned, that's really where you should just stop talking. Which is what I've stated at least 5 times. It's the ONLY PROVEN METHOD TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF ELECTIVE ABORTIONS.

 

[Marisa]

You may be correct. I've read a few articles suggesting it isn't, but you may be right. You're apparently in the field so I'll believe you. A warrant may very well be needed. It doesn't matter a great deal. Not signing the release is probable cause to suspect tax evasion, which is cause to secure a warrant.

Good luck proving that in court, behind a SCOTUS ruling guaranteeing a right to medical privacy.

 

[Underhill]

I've stated at least 5 times in this thread that birth control should be free. I don't discriminate, which is why I won't allow you to use poverty as an excuse for poor behavior. Poverty has no bearing on responsibility. Also, I support a woman's right to choose. My contention is the selfishness associated in abortions performed for the purpose of not disrupting a lifestyle. I commend planned parenthood for the preventative measures they take to reduce unwanted pregnancies. We need more of that being discussed and campaigned across the board. There are many ways to prevent unwanted pregnancy. One of which is not engaging in activity that could result in one. Another is better education. Another are contraceptives, which should be free. Furthermore, I suggest you 1. Follow the lines of reason to logical conclusions. 2. Quit sugar coating the issue and be HONEST!

I support human rights. A woman has a right to decide what happens to her body. She should not be forced to give birth against her will. Abortion is the most abhorrent practice this nation has ever had to tolerate for sake of human rights. The choice should be honored, the practice of abortion abhorred. It is absolutely the most selfish act a person can make when the determining factor to abort is to maintain a lifestyle. I understand medical necessity, rape, and incest but not convenience. The only valid solution to this issue is to demand greater responsibility and require accountability when an abortion is chosen. We can't force a woman to give birth against her will. We just can't, which is why abortion is legal.

Better preventative measures need to be utilized. The reality and severity of abortion needs to be seared in the minds of this nations citizens. This issue needs to remain on the forefront and addressed by the media daily. Free birth control needs to be made available. Abstinence needs to be encouraged in light of the selfishness involved in having sex when a human life is in the balance. Double this when absolutely unwilling to birth a child. If not willing to abstain, then the use of contraceptives need to be demanded by both parties for the sheer reason human lives are at stake. Parents ... educate your children and quit tip toeing around the issue. Tell it like it is and make no apologies. It comes down to being responsible, making better decisions, and not being so got dammed selfish and fearful.

The issue needs a new direction, otherwise we're just gonna keep beating our heads against brick walls. I'll continue to honor human rights. I will continue to support both choice and life. I think that demanding responsibility and accountability when an abortion is chosen for convenience is needed. Pregnancy prevention is the only valid solution to this issue. Prevention needs to be demanded and accountability required. Those who fail to meet these very basic and easy things to achieve and choose abortion to maintain a lifestyle need to be taxed. Call it an incentive to be more responsible. Reduce and/or eliminate unwanted pregnancies and no one would abort for sake of not disrupting a lifestyle. Prevention is the solution, incentives to spur responsible behavior will help.

I respect your opinion more than most pro-lifers as I can understand it. I just disagree with it.

This notion that all abortions are evil still bothers me and seems a bit archaic. I would be in favor of strengthening the intent of Roe v Wade by making 3rd trimester abortions very difficult to obtain. I agree with you on contraceptives and education. I also think the day after pill needs to be more available. It is the single easiest way to deal with the irresponsible behavior that will always exist out there in the real world.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes - without a warrant. Refusal to sign a release would not be a crime. It would only give cause for suspicion.

Not signing the release is probable cause to suspect tax evasion, which is cause to secure a warrant.

That implies a crime has been committed. And, again, it would be a violation of HIPAA laws.

Your last point couldn't be stopped, but it would be a crime and could result in prison time for the doctor if discovered.

That would be holding someone else to your own moral standards.

However, self (personal) identify could certainly be argued, even while still inside the womb.

They have no sense of self-awareness in the womb. This is basic science, and it takes some time, even after birth, to gain self awareness and realize that "I" exist.

Rational intelligence would dictate an acknowledgement of our interdependent reality.

I do not deny this.

These people are no longer rational and have been severely damaged in heart and mind, perhaps beyond repair.

This is doubtful. Do you have any evidence to back it up, or just emotionally fueled tangents?

You speak of morals and I ask you, what is moral about any of this?

Reducing crime seems to be a good one. Keeping children out of the adoption system is a good one. And because we have no natural predators, abortion is the only thing the Earth has to help keep our numbers lower than what we are; without, we would have a much more dire population problem. And if someone would get an abortion simply because a child would inconvenience them, it must be asked should those people be parents in the first place?

You seem to have none.

Interesting, that you would say that because I disagree with your position.

I suggest people this selfish are a danger to our society. If they are willing to go this far, they would be willing to do anything to get what they want.

Do you have any evidence to back this up?

 

[dust1n]

1st point: Abortion procedures require medical documentation and contractual agreements. Investigations are not necessary. Contractual agreements must be signed before an abortion takes place. By signing an agreement (release) to inform the IRS of the abortion would suffice. The medical documentation already list the reasons for aborting.

Oh, solved. All you have to do is have a check box on IRS Form 483b that asks this the doctor "is this a responsible abortion?" and then of course any supporting medical records. Then of course, if anyone ever refused to pay this tax, like if anyone ever just refused to pay it out of protest, you'd have to send law enforcement, employ the court system, I'm assuming adding another 5% to incentive the people to pay the original 5%, etc... Then, of course, would come the father, who might have just left to avoid being identified or found in the first place... and of course myriad of other concerns and layers of bureaucracy and costs to deal with that neither of us have to be concerned with since it's easy to just propose some government initiative without providing any actual mechanism to do it.

Your law program here is premised on the lack of responsibility so may people have, yet you seemed to have utilized none yourself in actually thinking it through, or any of the real-life consequences such a program would have. It's sort of wreckless really. Now, I'm not saying you don't have a right to free speech, or that you can't say what you're saying, but it is incredibly dangerous for hundreds of thousands of people, so I'm going to have to advocate an additional 3% tax for your idea. Remember, I'm not punishing your speech. I'm encouraging responsible behavior.

I don't know ... maybe every tax ever initiated.

Sorry, taxes force peoples' money to be used in some initiative. It doesn't actually make anyone act anymore responsible or become any more responsible.

If a person or couple is unwilling to have children and engage in activity that could produce a child that would be terminated my them, it's extremely irresponsible. It is irresponsible as well as unbelievably selfish behavior when a human life would be terminated if conceived for sake of something as petty as two people wanting to get off. It's very easy to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. Don't engage in activity that you already know beforehand could result in a pregnancy. These unintended pregnancies are a product of irresponsible choices. Easy.

Disagreed. Though it's amazing your incredible insight into so many people's choices whom you've never met in your life and literally know nothing about.

Noble -

Huh? The facts I presented are noble?

Yes ... and medical MJ is legal in CO, as it should be. How you'd go about taxing a drug user is not quite clear to me. That might be feasible when drug users are convicted of a crime, but it could be quite detrimental in terms of rehabilitation. Taxing legal drug use however would be a great idea!

Recreational MJ is legal in CO. And it is taxed. But, I'm talking about taxing all the people who ever were known to be on drugs, so once you cough up your ten percent, I'll be more willing to consider your determination on who is responsible or not.

Any woman who chooses black a market abortion over a legal, sanitary, and safe abortion performed in an approved clinic and risk severe harm or death to both themselves and the unborn child to save paying a minimal tax doesn't deserve my sympathy. Sorry.

If you can't afford an abortion, it's what happens. Self-induced abortions are innately human and have existed since as far back as our records on human history go. The fact that you lack any sympathy for the literally billions of women throughout history is unsurprising, nor garnishes any particular sympathy from me.

You're trying to employ emotion to an issue that requires logic and reason.

Hilarious you would say that to me, as I've already scrolled down and you describe in vivid detail with pro-life sanctioned graphics about how abortion is done. First of all, I've already referenced actual facts multiple times. You haven't actually presented any facts or evidence to make your case at all, aside from the ethical position. Your entire argument is premised on what you feel, not any basis of logic or reason at all.

You're making woman sound like money hungry monsters actually. You're suggesting some woman would prefer unsafe back alley abortions over responsible behavior that could have prevented the pregnancy to begin with to evade a minimal tax.

Anyone put in a position of desperation has great potential to do short-sighted and/or terrible things. Suicide is another common route.

 

[dust1n]

Woman do die from pregnancy. MMR is up from 2009 also. Some woman even take their own lives because of unwanted pregnancies. This tax would help prevent human loss on a much larger scale, but if it saved a single life it would be worth it. Follow?

So now your reasoning (morphing into an entirely different sentiment) is that if no woman ever got pregnant again, this would be a good thing, because no woman would ever die from pregnancy complications or from unintended pregnancies. If a single life can be saved would it be worth it? #outlawpregnancy