Father Heathen
Veteran Member
The MAGA ideology opposes it and is thus divisive and exclusionary.
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A lonely nation: Has the notion of the ‘American way’ promoted isolation across history?
- Thread starter Truthseeker
- Start date
Heyo
Veteran Member
Yet.
But
But all of it is useful and desirable, and the lack of it harmful.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
I'm not big on talking partisan politics. I'm steering away from that. Partisan politics has always been divisive. The polarization it causes at the moment is really bad in the USA. I will say partisan politics is divisive, but that's as far as it goes.
I see some drift away from the from what was supposed to be about individualism and loneliness, and for some the pull of talking politics overcame them. So, in my opinion, this thread has strayed from its original concept to discuss, which doesn't surprise me.
I see some drift away from the from what was supposed to be about individualism and loneliness, and for some the pull of talking politics overcame them. So, in my opinion, this thread has strayed from its original concept to discuss, which doesn't surprise me.
Our daily life has little or nothing in common with the way people lived three centuries ago. For three centuries life and reality itself has changed for us. Alex de Tocqueville observes the rapid transformations happening in his time, and he sees torrents like one sees when been spun and tossed by river rapids. We are as far from him as he was from people in 17th century. We are inclined to see previous people as unfortunate and/or ignorant. This makes us the upper class and previous people the lower class. It also severs us from the common bond.
My great-grandparents do not connect me with yours, because I cannot even connect with my own. We have no connection. They are like myths. My great grandfather grew up in a log cabin. He farmed, preached and did his own blacksmithing. How well can I understand him? How connected can I feel to him? You may feel like this doesn't explain solitude, but I think it is a factor. What does it mean to be an American if I cannot connect with people of the past? Those people worked so hard. They were workers first, survivors second, and then came everything else. The women drew water for everything. People bathed in streams. They would not recognize me if they met me. I'd be a stranger.
Consider schoolchildren who play together but then are separated and grow up apart from one another. We are all like them when they meet again forty years later. There is sadness and surprise, yet the friendship is unlikely to pick up where it left off.
I think the divisions already existed in the U.S. prior to MAGA, although MAGA arose largely due to the long-term effects of economic malaise and societal angst which had been going on in the decades prior. However, you're correct in that the left was traditionally the movement of communities, associations, unions, etc. - although they haven't really been that lately, which is what gave the MAGA crowd an opening.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
Women's right and LGBT rights are oxymorons. If there are women's right what are the men's rights? It seems like men have lost rights, to accommodate women's rights. This zero sum game causes division. If there are LGBT rights what are straight or natural rights? If the goal is unity, there can only be human rights, period.
A right only means you are not prohibited from certain behavior. A right does not mean a guaranteed outcome. I have the right to vote, but it does not mean my candidate has to win. We have the right to bear arms, but you are not entitled to have guns for free; stealing or government handouts. That would be an entitlement, and not a right. If you want a gun, you work, save your money and buy one. If you had the Lefty philosophy, you would expect government handing out guns in school. The Right believes in human rights and self reliance to achieve the best outcome but with no guarantee of only success.
Consider professional men's sports like the NBA; basketball. There are mostly black male players, not because of sexism, not because of racism, and not because of black privilege. This may be new to the Left, who sees the world this way; everything is rigged by sex, skin color and privilege. Everyone has the right to try out for the NBA, after an apprenticeship in school or club sports. The final demographics of the NBA, are the way they are, because these are the best players, period. There are objective criteria like points and rebounds and one set of rule for all. The Political Left has twisted success into meaning this a rigged game anyone can play if we change the rules for them. Rigging is a projection of the way the left goes about business. This rigging by Big Government is resisted and causes division. Success takes hard work, one set of rules, not government rigging with dual standards.
Say the Left wanted to infiltrate the NBA, so talent and hard work become a non factor. They would call this a racist, sexist and sport of black privilege. Old ladies could be the MVP if this was not rigged and the rules changed to accommodate. We will use a quota system, where every Lefty fringe group has "the right" to be in the NBA, even if they are terrible. What would happen? It would go to crap. This is what is happening to the culture; rigged system needs to end.
Americas was built on rugged self reliance. Our human rights removed obstacles, so what is left was your own talent and drive competing with the talent and drive of others, in the game of life. Some demographics are better at some things than others. You need to find your sweet spots and not covert what is not your best game, to where you steal success from others.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
"Stereotyping" is a form of dishonesty, and the above is just that.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Women's and LGBT rights are the same rights as everyone else, but they're specified because they're often denied, and them having rights doesn't magically take rights away from others.
**This Is A Discussion Only Area**
An exchange of ideas as opposed to trying to prove which idea is correct or superior.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
That is not how the quota system worked. It was was not based on merit, nor was it how public schools denied free speech, slanting it left. Colleges still censor Conservatives speakers, denying rights to free speech.
To understand the fundamental source of division and loneliness, in US culture, you need to understand the difference between Religious and Atheist morality. Religious morality is about the needs of the group or team. Atheist morality is more about the needs of the individual ego. The Atheists call their version of morality, relative morality, to accommodate individual choices, but not necessarily the needs of any particular team.
Relative morality is far more subjective, since it allows all the egos freedom to pull in different directions. Morality for a group or team need to be much more objective, since many subjective choices need to limited, to allow the group to work as a team. Atheism takes the more subjective path, while claiming to be on the side of reason. Relative is a subjective term.
As an analogy, say we wanted to put together a sports team using the principles of relative morality. We allow all the egos of the players to decide who plays where. This could lead to a situation where everyone wants the glamour position, so they can be seen on center stage. Since the team only needs one person per position, they all fight over that one position, and the team never gels due to resentment. There are hurt egos and back stabbers since all wanted to have it their relative way. The darkness of the free market is based on relative morality; mine, mine all mine. The same is true in politics.
Religious or group type morality is more like having a coach decide; holy book. In the best interest of the team, the coach uses objective criteria, such as tryouts, making all the players play all the positions, in practice. Bull crap and bootlicking does not matter to him. From that objective data and his own experience, the coach assigns positions based on maximizing his talent for the team. The egos of all the players, may not like his final lineup. However, the coach is in charge, so they will have to make compromises in terms of their subjective needs and desires. The coach's final arrangement of players, is objective and fair, which allows the team to organize and learn to play as one. Loneliness, occurs when you feel isolated in your own subjective world, not when you feel are part of a winning team. Relative morality is seductive, but it can also isolate you in your subjective world of one.
Political parties try to form teams, but these teams cannot accommodate everyone, because the egos of the leaders are still practicing relative morality. This only allows half the players, at best, to work together. This would be like the coach putting the boss's son in the glamor position, not because he is the best at the position, and therefore best for the team, but because he is bootlicking the boss for more money. The coach is coin operated; relative morality. This is more of a hybrid type of morality, where a team is being led by the subjectivity or relative morality of a coach; dual standards that are not fair or rational.
MAGA was trying to go back to the Golden generation of WWII, where everyone, regardless of your subjective morality, had to sacrifice for a life or death cause; world domination, with men and women each having roles on the team; soldiers and supply producers. There was little resources for ego vanity; nylon for parachutes but not women's stockings, allowing even opposing political parties, to pull together, against their common enemies. The team became optimized and secured the blessings of liberty for the world. This lasted a few years, until relative morality showed it's ugly face again; Cold War, with cultures getting paranoid with internal division.
I could not understand why the Left was so against one large golden team; revisionist history is subjective or relative.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Don't you wish it would actually be great for once?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
We fought against fascism during WWII, and now we have the MAGA Pubs blindly following their neo-fascist leader, Donald J. Trump.
Alien826
No religious beliefs
If wishes were horses we'd all be Derby winners.
But yes, it would be nice . If we could just agree on a definition of "great" we would have better chance.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
That was a big, steaming pile of straw men and non sequiturs.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
It seems your message is being ignored, or they don't care. I haven't looked here for a while. i gave up on this thread that I started.