A Neat Little Comparison Chart

[Drizzt Do'Urden]

Nothing hyperbolic about it. It's all reality and quite documented. I'm not surprised. As was mentioned, most people calling themselves "libertarians" and "classical liberals" are really just Republicans who want to distance themselves from the Christian fascists in their party but still put their party allegiance above their stated ideology. They should ask themselves they support a party that is everything they should hate and that is wrecking this country.

It is hyperbolic nonsense and you know it (FYI, I voted for Gary Johnson for POTUS)

You know, over the last 30 years or so of my life, the far left and the far right have been slowly and inexorably assuming more and more control over their respective parties. It is out of control, and I for one look forward to the day that the moderates in each party regain control. Of course that'll probably never happen because keeping the conflict going is big business for the media who love to stir up the masses, and politicians love that we're divided and fighting amongst ourselves so they can do things like sign bills that institute automatic pay raises for everyone in Congress, give themselves healthcare better than most private insurers, etc...

It used to be that politicians were Americans first, and politicians second. Today, that is flipped on it's head.

Most Republicans are honest, hard working folk who care about this country and care about people in general. Most Democrats are honest, hard working folk who care about this country and care about people in general. Most Republicans and Democrats aren't these nutjobs in control of the parties today.

 

[sun rise]

Nixon established a panel to investigate marijuana. The panel issued a report finding marijuana to be relatively harmless. Nixon buried the report.

That's hardly the action of a leftist liberal.

Nixon feared, hated and demonized the press and academia.

That's hardly the action of a leftist liberal.

EPA was created during Nixon's era.

As far as dope goes, left and right both thought of it as evil during that time.

But my point is by standards of the right wing currently not in absolute terms.

 

[Windwalker]

The left admits when people on it's side do the wrong thing - look at senators and others who have resigned when things came out. The right lies and attacks the media and judiciary and licks Donny's boots before hiding under the bed like cowards.

Let's see, Al Franken resigned over the accusations about his behaviors with women previously in his life. Now, contrast that with Stormy Daniels, payoffs, and the long list of even more egregious behaviors that have and continue to come to the surface of how he treats women like meat. If Donald were a real man, like Al Franken, he should show the rest of us the same respect and turn in his clown hat as our President and resign. But that won't happen, and least not of his own choosing.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It is hyperbolic nonsense and you know it

5 signs America is devolving into a plutocracy
Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
American Authoritarianism, Coming 2017
How the War on Terror Has Militarized the Police
Police Militarization in the Trump Era

Have fun in la la land.

 

[Drizzt Do'Urden]

5 signs America is devolving into a plutocracy
Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy
American Authoritarianism, Coming 2017
How the War on Terror Has Militarized the Police
Police Militarization in the Trump Era

Have fun in la la land.

I'm not offended by what you say. I'm just glad that you're stringing words into sentences...

 

[Falvlun]

You know, over the last 30 years or so of my life, the far left and the far right have been slowly and inexorably assuming more and more control over their respective parties.

This is simply untrue. While the Republican Party has certainly marched further right, there has been no similar march left for the Democrats. If anything, the reverse has happened: the Republicans have pulled the Democrats to the right along with them.

The Republicans have absorbed and capitulated to the Tea Party and the Freedom Caucus which undoubtedly pulled them further right. They have also doubled-down on catering to Christian evangelicals. There is simply no such comparable groups with similar power or effect to be found on the left.

Furthermore, in comparison to liberal parties in Europe, our Democrats would be considered center-right conservatives. Our very definitions of liberal and conservative have been skewed to the right.

Just look at the ACA for an exhibit. It was the conservative plan for healthcare reform in the 90’s. But two decades later, conservatives consider it a liberal “Obamanation”. As for Democrats, they accepted this conservative plan and couldn’t even get single payer included. They got more conservative from their 90’s position.

I think Trump may reverse this trend for the Democrats. We’re more fired up than we’ve been for a while. Couple that with the Bernie awakening and we might just have something. But it really is ludicrous to look over the last 30 years with how far to the right Republicans have shifted and assert that the Democrats have an equivalent left shift.

 

[Shaul]

What am I looking for there? Some random person opinion on the internet? I'm sure if you analyzed what was said you'd have a different opinion.

That guy’s blog has as much analysis as this tripe deserves to show that the chart is garbage, which isn’t that much. Re-read it yourself. If you can’t see how he tears apart the chart then I think we’ve identified the problem.

 

[Shaul]

Indictments are not number of people, some people have several indictments.

When was General Patraeus part of the executive branch?

Here is a link to the chart without Trump with plenty of references.
Comparing presidential administrations by arrests and convictions: A warning for Trump appointees

Trumps administration is quite a list which I will go through sometime but quite frankly the numbers look fine on the chart.

There haven’t been 17 indictments of Trump “Executive Branch Criminal Activities” regardless how they are divided. Nice try at diversion. You still haven’t defined what “Executive Branch Criminal Activities” means. A Postal worker in Texas is part of the Executive Branch as would be a drunken sailor. You couldn’t even provide the list when asked. Pfft.

FYI, General Petraeus was head of the CIA under Obama. He was a member of Obama’s National Security Council and very much a member of his Administration. Honestly, it was on the link I provided previously. If you didn’t know that and couldn’t even be bothered to click on a link, then you’re done.

 

[Drizzt Do'Urden]

This is simply untrue. While the Republican Party has certainly marched further right, there has been no similar march left for the Democrats. If anything, the reverse has happened: the Republicans have pulled the Democrats to the right along with them.

The Republicans have absorbed and capitulated to the Tea Party and the Freedom Caucus which undoubtedly pulled them further right. They have also doubled-down on catering to Christian evangelicals. There is simply no such comparable groups with similar power or effect to be found on the left.

Furthermore, in comparison to liberal parties in Europe, our Democrats would be considered center-right conservatives. Our very definitions of liberal and conservative have been skewed to the right.

Just look at the ACA for an exhibit. It was the conservative plan for healthcare reform in the 90’s. But two decades later, conservatives consider it a liberal “Obamanation”. As for Democrats, they accepted this conservative plan and couldn’t even get single payer included. They got more conservative from their 90’s position.

I think Trump may reverse this trend for the Democrats. We’re more fired up than we’ve been for a while. Couple that with the Bernie awakening and we might just have something. But it really is ludicrous to look over the last 30 years with how far to the right Republicans have shifted and assert that the Democrats have an equivalent left shift.

Laughable... If you doubt that the Democratic party has moved to the left, take a look at the Socialist party platform from 1928 and compare it to the modern Democratic party platform and tell me they aren't nearly identical. Then compare the Democratic party platform from the 20's to what it is today. It is the progressive liberals (socialists) in the Democratic party who are in charge these days, my friend.

EDIT: Just in case you have a problem adding 2+2, what I am saying is that starting in the early 1900's Democrats and Socialists began merging into one big more inclusive party. The Democratic party of today is the result of that fusion. Add into the mix the 60's hippies who have come into positions of power in the last 30 years and voila... A more lefty Democratic party.

I wish my Democrat friends were back in power.

Likewise, compare the Republican party platform from the same time periods.

Regarding your claims about the ACA, that is a half truth and ignores established history. While there certainly were some similarities to the bill Republicans had in mind back in the 90's, which they crafted as an alternative to the plan the Democrats/Hillary had in mind, the plan that was ultimately crafted had plenty of opposition from Republicans so I wouldn't characterize it as a unanimous assent that it was needed. Also, there wasn't just one Republican plan, there were many.

 

[idav]

There haven’t been 17 indictments of Trump “Executive Branch Criminal Activities” regardless how they are divided. Nice try at diversion. You still haven’t defined what “Executive Branch Criminal Activities” means. A Postal worker in Texas is part of the Executive Branch as would be a drunken sailor. You couldn’t even provide the list when asked. Pfft.

FYI, General Petraeus was head of the CIA under Obama. He was a member of Obama’s National Security Council and very much a member of his Administration. Honestly, it was on the link I provided previously. If you didn’t know that and couldn’t even be bothered to click on a link, then you’re done.

That’s great to be nit picky but I see nothing to indicate the numbers are that far off. Your list is talking about convictions not indictments. The mueller probe is far from over and had over 20 charges each for Gates and Manafort. The dossier led to 44 indictments just connected to Trump tower. I have no time or interest in counting through the corruption that is anyone assoiciated with trump and the high turn over since each of the pleas could have been numerous charges. Trump is off to a good start in catching the greats on that list, we will see if Trump can best Nixon, the corruption that surrounds Rump is beyond ridiculous.

 

[tytlyf]

That guy’s blog has as much analysis as this tripe deserves to show that the chart is garbage, which isn’t that much. Re-read it yourself. If you can’t see how he tears apart the chart then I think we’ve identified the problem.

I can't find the chart it's referencing. I don't see an image. Link it.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Looks like Nixon has them all beat. Nixon's the man!

Nobody does it like tricky Nick. ;0)

 

[Twilight Hue]

I see where the info from the op is based on with additional info

Comparing presidential administrations by arrests and convictions: A warning for Trump appointees

 

[Twilight Hue]

Sometimes I wonder if a squeaky clean administration means not much was actually accomplished.

Seems in politics, by nature, one needs to get his or her hands dirty in order to get things done.

 

[Shaul]

That’s great to be nit picky but I see nothing to indicate the numbers are that far off. Your list is talking about convictions not indictments. The mueller probe is far from over and had over 20 charges each for Gates and Manafort. The dossier led to 44 indictments just connected to Trump tower. I have no time or interest in counting through the corruption that is anyone assoiciated with trump and the high turn over since each of the pleas could have been numerous charges. Trump is off to a good start in catching the greats on that list, we will see if Trump can best Nixon, the corruption that surrounds Rump is beyond ridiculous.

Just produce the list of 17 indictments your chart has for Trump.

 

[fantome profane]

You know, over the last 30 years or so of my life, the far left and the far right have been slowly and inexorably assuming more and more control over their respective parties.

If you think the Democratic Party is controlled by the far left I can only conclude you have no idea what the far left is.

It is more accurate to say both parties have become more and more controlled by big corporate money.

I do see a more progressive element making gains in the Democratic Party recently. I only hope they succeed in wrestling control from the corporate “moderate” democrats that are currently in control.

 

[Drizzt Do'Urden]

If you think the Democratic Party is controlled by the far left I can only conclude you have no idea what the far left is.

It is more accurate to say both parties have become more and more controlled by big corporate money.

I do see a more progressive element making gains in the Democratic Party recently. I only hope they succeed in wrestling control from the corporate “moderate” democrats that are currently in control.

They are more in control of the party today than at any time in the past. I don't contend that they are in complete control, but their influence is apparent, and makes perfect sense in light of the fact that the people in charge today were previously activist hippies in an earlier time (the 60's and 70's).

 

[fantome profane]

They are more in control of the party today than at any time in the past.

Wish it were so.

 

[Drizzt Do'Urden]

Wish it were so.

Ask and you shall receive...

Analysis | The remarkably fast liberalization of the Democratic Party

An article about a Pew study done on this very topic... From the article... Look closely at that third graph 2017, and you'll notice that Democrats are actually more clustered toward the far left than Republicans are to the far right. The median Democrat is also closer to the extreme than the median Republican.

 

[Falvlun]

Laughable... If you doubt that the Democratic party has moved to the left, take a look at the Socialist party platform from 1928 and compare it to the modern Democratic party platform and tell me they aren't nearly identical. Then compare the Democratic party platform from the 20's to what it is today. It is the progressive liberals (socialists) in the Democratic party who are in charge these days, my friend.

EDIT: Just in case you have a problem adding 2+2, what I am saying is that starting in the early 1900's Democrats and Socialists began merging into one big more inclusive party. The Democratic party of today is the result of that fusion. Add into the mix the 60's hippies who have come into positions of power in the last 30 years and voila... A more lefty Democratic party.

I wish my Democrat friends were back in power.

Likewise, compare the Republican party platform from the same time periods.

Regarding your claims about the ACA, that is a half truth and ignores established history. While there certainly were some similarities to the bill Republicans had in mind back in the 90's, which they crafted as an alternative to the plan the Democrats/Hillary had in mind, the plan that was ultimately crafted had plenty of opposition from Republicans so I wouldn't characterize it as a unanimous assent that it was needed. Also, there wasn't just one Republican plan, there were many.

Your original post was about the last 30 years, but now you are going back to the early 1900’s? Do you honestly expect complete stasis for nearly a 100 years? What democratic friends from the 1920’s do you want in power? If the 60’s Democrats are in power then that’s hardly a recent slide to the left— that’s literally a movement from 50 years ago.

All your examples are ancient history. And they do not address that fact that American democrats are centrist conservatives everywhere else. Compare that to the very recent and very precipitous descent to the Right in the last 20 years.

As for the ACA, every Republican doesn’t need to sign on for it to have been a conservative plan, floated by the Heritage Foundation no less. The point was that it was considered a conservative alternative— and now, the pure hatred it inspired in conservatives literally launched the tea party. This is a clear example of the sudden and extreme rightward turn of conservatives in the last couple decades.