a new dir introduction

[jasonwill2]

It has occurred to me that the introduction to our directory is very poorly written. I propose we make a new one. Below is a draft I made based on an unbiased division of metaphysical belief.

This is just an example of the kind of way to present it I think might be better, and at that a terrible first draft lol. If we do this we should probably collaborate.

The one there has an old dead link from the Joy of Satan site... not a trustworthy place. Also i think this post of mine had tons of links for many sides that we might be able to use:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2750858-post4.html


anyways:


Atheism

This group does not see Satan real in anyway, but rather Satan is a symbol of various virtues or ideas.

Church of Satan

Founded in 1966, the CoS is a large presence in the Satanic scene. Founded by Anton LaVey, the so-called LaVeyan form of Satanism is based on philosophers such as Nechize and Ayn Rand, the magical systems of Alister Crowely, and then thrown into diabolical imagery. The two books that make the foundation of their beliefs is The Satanic Bible (Anton LaVey, 1969), and The Satanic Scriptures (Gilmore, 1994?). The CoS also has the Nine Satanic Statements, The Nine Satanic Sins, and the Eleven Rules of the Earth. According to Gilmore, Satan is a mode of behavior.

[wikipedia link]
Symbolic

A symbolic Satanist is someone who uses Satan as a symbol for either rebellion, freedom, individuality, or some other virtue. Though some musical artists who sing about Satan may qualify as well depending on who you ask.

Theism

These Satanists are those who see Satan as a real entity, force, or being. Their beliefs are diverse and comprise of several different religions.

Monotheistic

Essentially Satan is the only God, but even within this beliefs can vary.

Polytheistic

Satan is a god, but there are other gods as well. Satan could be an old pre-Christian god with a new name, or the creator god and the others are gods he made or were one people. This is the most popular form of Satanism in many places. The Church of Azazel and the Joy of Satan are two organized examples.

The Churcj of Azazel is founded by Diane Vera and based in New York City, She also does commentary on Satanism online.

[linnk]

The Joy of Satan is a highly odd group that believes that spirits and gods are aliens and essentially inverts the roles of Satan and The Christian God. The group is highly controversial in The Satanic community due to it's dubious historical claims and it's anti-Semitism. There are many rumors about the inteniton of the site, even some information suggesting it is a recruiting front for White Supremeists.

[link]

Pantheism, Panentheism, and Pandeism

Essentially Satan is the Universe, or the Universe is part of Satan, or Satan died and became the Universe. All are related concepts and typically equate Satan with some kind of cosmological princible.

Duo-Theology

The closest thing that Satanism ever comes to reverse Christanity. In this very small minority, Satan rightously rebelled against Yaweh who was a tyrant. These Satanists essentally accept the metaphysics of Christianity but otherwise reject the rest. In this view Yahweh created the Universe, and Satan rebelled, and Hell and Heaven exist, but the rest is different.

Satan is good, Yahweh is a tryant, and Satan has a chance of beating Yahweh and freeing man from both the tortures of hell and the slavery of heaven. Though their can be variations where-as Hell is freedom from Yahweh for example.

 

[Polarbear]

I agree, this DIR needs a new introduction. Your is better, but you should cut the reference to the JoS. I don't think we should give them the attention.

 

[1137]

Yeah, don't even let people think those pseudo-satanic neo-nazis are related to you.

 

[jasonwill2]

hmm idk.

i once had a good draft that was too long, this was to just give an idea of the style we might try.

obviously this is not the final version.

also i personally dont care if they call themselves satanists, they could be for all i know, i have not seen all sides of teh issue on the "are they a nazi front" debate

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

hmm idk.

i once had a good draft that was too long, this was to just give an idea of the style we might try.

obviously this is not the final version.

also i personally dont care if they call themselves satanists, they could be for all i know, i have not seen all sides of teh issue on the "are they a nazi front" debate

All it takes to be convinced is to look at Black Sun web site Maxine is fond of referencing.

 

[Mindmaster]

All it takes to be convinced is to look at Black Sun web site Maxine is fond of referencing.

Yea, JoS would be awesome without all the stupid Nazi crap it is sad really that the entirety of their site is completely awesome and useful other than the links to stupidity. Although I will say that Jew=Muslim=Christian as far as I am concerned I feel no need to refer to them with a word that rhymes with bike. It is easy enough to combat them with logic (which they don't possess) and demanding proof of what they preach (they don't have any). I still think EVEN with this it is the best Satanic ritual and magic text on the web bar none and still should be linked though maybe with a disclaimer. Sorry I've read a lot of things, and they still are the best on those things everything else is sub-par or laden with drivel.

I find fascism and Satanism completely incompatible on countless points so I am not sure why there is some need to merge them. In fact I would say that most of the neo-nazi's would hate your guts for getting off-topic, but it doesn't change the fact that some of their material is the best. Removing them really just removes one of the few useful theistic Satanism practice sites; that one and Vera's are probably the only ones worth reading at all.

 

[jasonwill2]

ok so about a new DIR introduction.

anything important I might of missed or groups I should include? I'll give a ton of links too. If you guys want tommorow I can work on an uber good draft and then on the 10th I can post it.

Also does anyone know the character limit for posts? I might need to split the DIR into two posts if I want to be comprehensive enough for people to get the gist of the diversity, I seek to represent as many as the wider-views as possible. So far on the top of my mind a number of my links will probably lead to Theisticsatanism.com spiritualsatanism.com and the church of satan's website as well as a number of other articles I have read from other sites that arn't christian propaganda

 

[Orias]

I suggest keeping it as short and sweet as possible.

Reveal little detail, like simple definitions pertaining to vital attributes of the Satanist short while at the same time providing a link for a more detailed reference.

 

[jasonwill2]

I suggest keeping it as short and sweet as possible.

Reveal little detail, like simple definitions pertaining to vital attributes of the Satanist short while at the same time providing a link for a more detailed reference.

ya, but the thing is i wanna present it as a diverse place, so i will give lots of links ot many sites that are probably all criticizing each other

 

[Orias]

Of course it can still be diverse, but you have to limit personal philosophies from intruding upon the aspect of personal philosophies.

It can be diverse but that doesn't have to make it complex in terms of explanations.

Instead of explaining each thing individually try and come up with something that explains a couple relative things in form of a small summary. Do this a couple times with relative groupings of Satanic aspects and we have ourselves a new and vital introduction.

Though maybe if we picked specific people to exemplify certain aspects it would be a little better off considering "specializations" and such.

 

[Jacksnyte]

I would also include a Dark Doctrines section for Satanic Reds and similar groups.

 

[jasonwill2]

Of course it can still be diverse, but you have to limit personal philosophies from intruding upon the aspect of personal philosophies.

It can be diverse but that doesn't have to make it complex in terms of explanations.

Instead of explaining each thing individually try and come up with something that explains a couple relative things in form of a small summary. Do this a couple times with relative groupings of Satanic aspects and we have ourselves a new and vital introduction.

Though maybe if we picked specific people to exemplify certain aspects it would be a little better off considering "specializations" and such.

True, I will keep that in mind when writing my next draft, i will do that tommorow and post it the day after that when i get back online

I would also include a Dark Doctrines section for Satanic Reds and similar groups.

I don't know what "dark doctirnes" means... but i assume the other part is about communist satanists... i havnt heard much of them.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

@Mindmaster

I think Venus Satanas has a pretty good web site, though it isn't near as extensive as Diane Vera's (that one is so big you can get lost in it). I think part of the attraction is the symbol of the Svastika. Not the crap anti-semitism that the Nazis imposed on it,but the symbol itself. It a very old and primal symbol that I think needs a reinterpretation. Ive been personally thinking about adopting the sauvastika as a personal symbol (sauvastika is the counter-clockwise version).

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

@jason

Dark Doctrines is one the concepts of the Satanic Reds, Tani Jantsang's group. I haven't heard anything out of them in a while.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Oh, and let's not forget:

Sinagogue of Satan

 

[jasonwill2]

Oh, and let's not forget:

Sinagogue of Satan

what's with the 's'es?

it looks SS/nazi

 

[Jacksnyte]

Oh, and:

LUCIFER, CHURCH LUCIFER

 

[Polarbear]

Does anyone know how to get the admins to make the thread a sticky and get the old DIR introduction deleted?

 

[jasonwill2]

Does anyone know how to get the admins to make the thread a sticky and get the old DIR introduction deleted?

You might want to look at the DIR rule again

 

[Mindmaster]

@Mindmaster

I think Venus Satanas has a pretty good web site, though it isn't near as extensive as Diane Vera's (that one is so big you can get lost in it). I think part of the attraction is the symbol of the Svastika. Not the crap anti-semitism that the Nazis imposed on it,but the symbol itself. It a very old and primal symbol that I think needs a reinterpretation. Ive been personally thinking about adopting the sauvastika as a personal symbol (sauvastika is the counter-clockwise version).

Venus Satanas is a complete dolt and doesn't even practice Satanism other than to act like it on her sites so she can make money on newbies. Her site is about selling pole dances and merch. Do some digging on her and you will easily determine she is a Wiccan that likes dark aesthetics especially after watching her videos and comparing to something like JoS or even Vera's site you can see the differences. Pardon me if I don't feel that she counts... Most of the stuff that is useful on her site is plagiarised off other authors . She probably has the most videos, but the content level is low and the information is rather worthless. She also believes Satanism is an umbrella term, and many theistic Satanists do not feel this is a fact. I'm perfectly happy with people tagging their adjective to the word Satanism, but conventionally Satan is in Satanism every other idea is something else. To me Satanism = Theistic Satanism but not because I am one as I thought that a long way before as well when I considered myself an atheist; I even found it troubling to call myself a Satanist when I was in my LaVey period. I've had a few conversations with Venus and trust me when I say she is not the person to take any advice on Satanism from. I don't even think she practices anything in any sense it is merely to sell crap with her cult of (lack of) personality ways. I feel that way mostly because she has an everything and the kitchen sink occult mentality which speaks to me of someone whom hasn't found the core effective methods and is unable synthesize and distil the information. I've been at this awhile and I don't personally use anything she mentions because I know it is worthless overcomplicated CRAP. There is a blog where she herself is saying she doesn't believe Satan as an entity which really takes her out of the theistic club HERE; I apologize for the cat fight ahead but it is typical of her contributions to the cause. A relevant bit:

September 22, 2008 8:38 AM
VenusSatanas said... I don't worship anything.

I think Satan is a force of nature. And that all gods were created by humans.

Worshiping a symbolic human creation that represents nature, is quite pointless.

That is why this episode on your blog has been so funny, and entertaining.

She not only fails to understand the meaning of the word worship (which simply means: to respect or venerate), but also her views do not make her a theistic Satanist in any sense. Pantheism takes you out of our camp (I have a post on this somewhere) and puts you in line with how neo-pagans such as Wiccans and Druids see things. I would argue that the closest you can get to this and still be a theistic Satanist is panentheism once you go that other way you are merely a Wiccan in drag. Traditional Satanists also don't believe in this 'human created archetype' jazz either so I don't know what crack she is smoking when she calls herself a spiritual Satanist.

Another group worth mentioning is the Gem-Dem group (Demonolaters) here. They are soft polytheistic Satan/Demon worshippers. They do have a great library though and the material is highly condensed and can even be used in a non-polytheistic practice. It undoubtedly borrows from the JoS methods, but it is condensed and sans Nazi crap. They also have a lot of published books which is great if you're clueless on something. The information they hand out isn't even like five percent of the JoS site.

I like Diane Vera, but her site is wordy and not very practical and deals more with morality and conceptual issues -- there is very little practical information anywhere. The newbie is still running over to the JoS site because it has the best content. Just because we're reading over there doesn't mean we're becoming little Hitler's or something. It is obvious to anyone intelligent enough that the Christianity information on that site is highly suspect and the black sun hate stuff is just as worthless. If the Nazis were so great why did they get their crap kicked in? That's the only point I have to make.