• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

A omnipotent, omnibenevolent God and human beings suffering

WhatGod

Member
I personally see no problem with suffering. In fact, I believe that our God was most loving to enable us with an ability to suffer.

So you believe in an evil god?

You see, suffering is "pain that is caused by injury, illness, loss, etc."

What sort of existence would we have if we should not feel pain when we are faced with injury, illness, or loss? No my friend, suffering is good. I thank God that He has made us capable of suffering.

So you are happy that god created all the horrors, injuries, every sort of mutilation and betrayal and then gave us the ability to fully anticipate, grasp, feel and linger in the anguish of these misfortunes?

That's pretty dark there. I guess he really is the source of all evil like he claims in the bible.
 
What sort of existence would we have if we should not feel pain when we are faced with injury, illness, or loss? No my friend, suffering is good. I thank God that He has made us capable of suffering.

Suffering is profound, with its own beauty, and sometimes pain is moving and joyous, like a mom giving birth to a baby. Suffering has depth and meaning, and in each memory of the lost paradise of childhood, suffering is so colorful and playful. Pain, if tolerated, makes you feel invincible, and so on.
But God is omnipotent, and all the beauty of suffering and pain could've been available to us somewhere else.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
So you believe in an evil god?

Sorry, there is nothing evil about suffering. It is the natural God given experience for loss. It can only be good that we suffer when we experience loss.

So you are happy that god created all the horrors, injuries, every sort of mutilation and betrayal and then gave us the ability to fully anticipate, grasp, feel and linger in the anguish of these misfortunes?

Yes, I am most thankful to God for all He has given me. I am most thankful for those moments of suffering from which I have learned the most.

That's pretty dark there. I guess he really is the source of all evil like he claims in the bible.

God is the source of all that is. Whether or not you think that is dark depends on you and what you think. It has little to do with reality.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
Suffering is profound, with its own beauty, and sometimes pain is moving and joyous, like a mom giving birth to a baby. Suffering has depth and meaning, and in each memory of the lost paradise of childhood, suffering is so colorful and playful. Pain, if tolerated, makes you feel invincible, and so on.
But God is omnipotent, and all the beauty of suffering and pain could've been available to us somewhere else.

I suppose it could have been somewhere else. But why should it be some where else? What's wrong with here and now.
 

Triumphant_Loser

Libertarian Egalitarian
Sorry, there is nothing evil about suffering. It is the natural God given experience for loss. It can only be good that we suffer when we experience loss.

But it is evil to refuse to stop suffering if it is well within your power (aka the Christian god.) If you knew your neighbor was torturing their child in their basement, would you call 911 and help them, or let them suffer day in and day out? If you answer was "help them," then congratulations... you care more than your god does.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
But it is evil to refuse to stop suffering if it is well within your power (aka the Christian god.) If you knew your neighbor was torturing their child in their basement, would you call 911 and help them, or let them suffer day in and day out? If you answer was "help them," then congratulations... you care more than your god does.

It depends on where one thinks he gains the capacity for compassion, empathy, and love. As for me, I receive these things from My God.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Stockholm syndrome. God places humanity in the position of suffering. We turn around to empathize with God for doing so.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Lol except it depends on your idea of 'God'. There are different concepts, always have been.

If a version of God is the creator of everything it is responsible for suffering so my statement applies. We are born as hostages and expected to sympathize with the suffering forced upon us by the one holding us hostage.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
If a version of God is the creator of everything it is responsible for suffering so my statement applies. We are born as hostages and expected to sympathize with the suffering forced upon us by the one holding us hostage.

No, you cannot sympathize for anyone unless you are given that ability. No one expects you to do that which is right. I sure don't. I expect you to make the wrong decisions every time. You are most free to respond to the sufferings of others as you choose. You are an agent of free will. No one is forcing you to be benevolent. No one is forcing you to feed the hungry. Why do you say such things? Could it be a guilty conscience? I wonder what causes you to have that?
 
But it is evil to refuse to stop suffering if it is well within your power (aka the Christian god.) If you knew your neighbor was torturing their child in their basement, would you call 911 and help them, or let them suffer day in and day out? If you answer was "help them," then congratulations... you care more than your god does.

Truly, truly i say to you all, there is more love inside this triumphant loser than in all the catholic churches of the world.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
No, you cannot sympathize for anyone unless you are given that ability. No one expects you to do that which is right. I sure don't. I expect you to make the wrong decisions every time. You are most free to respond to the sufferings of others as you choose. You are an agent of free will. No one is forcing you to be benevolent. No one is forcing you to feed the hungry. Why do you say such things? Could it be a guilty conscience? I wonder what causes you to have that?

Yes and for this reason I reject the threats of violence and suffering while being offered a carrot which demands I accept this as the will of another being. You just choose Stockholm syndrome while I refuse to sympathize with the one holding me hostage while claiming to be benevolent.
 
I suppose it could have been somewhere else. But why should it be some where else? What's wrong with here and now.

Nothing wrong with here and now, nothing but here and now is.
The problem is, in the absolutely here and absolutely now, there is nothing but light and God disappeares.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
So you believe in an evil god then?
You missed the point of what I was saying. Focus in and read the whole post.
The triple Omni definition of god is a pretty standard one. Standard enough that it predates xtianity by at least a couple hundred years.

What do you propose for the qualities of god then?
We're not about the business of defining God. It can't be done. These descriptors work in a theological context that is generally at odds with theodicy, which is what we're discussing.
Of course not. They are pretend qualities for a pretend deity. It would seem self evident nothing could actually exhibit any of the three omnis.
If that's your position, then you have no dog in the hunt where theology is concerned and you should respectfully bow out.

To say that "it would seem self-evident" is to say that you don't understand theology enough to pose any kind of valid theological argument. But maybe you're just here to provoke and entertain yourself at our expense?
Now you are trying to equivocate yourself out of a corner. They are the qualities which make god a good god. God may have other qualities like being petty, wrathful and jealous. But without the omnis, she is not a god.
this is infantile theological thinking.
Mental, emotional or physical anguish. Often closely associated with pain, but not pain in and of itself. For example you can suffer the anticipation of pain.
What is the cause of the anguish? Is it externally-enforced, or internally cased? Why are all forms of suffering lumped together? Surely we can separate suffering into several categories of cause, quantity, and purpose? You see, until we've explored human suffering and decided what specifically we'd like to address theologically, it does no good to put God in the mix. A very broad set of human conditions cannot rightly be used to disprove or defame God.

Maybe it'd be best for you if you got a handle on theology, and its purpose, before we proceed further.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Suffering is profound, with its own beauty, and sometimes pain is moving and joyous, like a mom giving birth to a baby. Suffering has depth and meaning, and in each memory of the lost paradise of childhood, suffering is so colorful and playful. Pain, if tolerated, makes you feel invincible, and so on.
But God is omnipotent, and all the beauty of suffering and pain could've been available to us somewhere else.
But the point is that it is not available to us elsewhere. Why do you keep arguing for a universe that simply does not exist?
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
Yes and for this reason I reject the threats of violence and suffering while being offered a carrot which demands I accept this as the will of another being. You just choose Stockholm syndrome while I refuse to sympathize with the one holding me hostage while claiming to be benevolent.

I'm sorry you see this life as a prison. I wish you the best of luck.
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong with here and now, nothing but here and now is.
The problem is, in the absolutely here and absolutely now, there is nothing but light and God disappeares.

No offense, but that means nothing to me. Can you explain what you mean here?
 

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
No I do not see it as a prison. I see theists claims as a prison.

I experience God, and I am not imprisoned. If my claims seem to imprison you, I'm sorry. You'll have to get used to it, because I intend to keep pro-claiming the existence and glory of God.
 
Top