A personal relationship with God?

[McBell]

i cant help it if you dont like my answer.

huh?
Oh, I get it.
You are merely going to dismiss it as my not liking your "answers" instead of even trying to understand that you have not actually answered.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, right?

I dont view God as the cause of mans violent acts. I dont view God as evil because he has allowed it either.

When did I blame god for mans violent acts?
Seems you are much more interested in your strawmen than actually having an honest discussion.

Since it is obvious you have no intentions of actually answering, I shall leave you to your box.

 

[waitasec]

Cain didnt just throw a rock at Able, he smashed his head in. People take things too far. God knows that we are prone to do so. If he does not control our actions, then we must control our actions....and if we are prone to go overboard, then someone is bound to get hurt eventually.

Im sure God was witness to mans violent outbursts long enough to know that even his own chosen people will still be prone to violent outbursts.

so why condone slavery at all? why condone the dominion of one human being over the other? why not just say slavery is a sin, instead of pussyfooting around the issue like a corrupt politician? lets not stop there, why not say child abuse is a sin and genocide and spousal abuse....i mean really, why have we been able to figure these things out without one word from your god?

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I think those who claim to have special personal relationship with "God" are kind of selfish IMHO. Wouldn't there be far bigger issues in this huge universe worry about without being bothered by some little God botherer on little old earth?

 

[Pegg]

so why condone slavery at all? why condone the dominion of one human being over the other?

because people had incorporated slavery into their everyday lives. it was a legitimate form of punishment for criminals and it was a legitimate way for people in debt to repay their debts.

You have to realise that condoning something does not mean you approve of it and want to implement it yourself.

why not just say slavery is a sin, instead of pussyfooting around the issue like a corrupt politician? lets not stop there, why not say child abuse is a sin and genocide and spousal abuse....i mean really, why have we been able to figure these things out without one word from your god?

All those things do fall below the standard that God had originally intended for mankind, so in that way, yes it is a sin. When mankind are fully submissive to Gods rule I can assure you that there will be no one behaving in such violent or oppressive ways.

 

[waitasec]

because people had incorporated slavery into their everyday lives. it was a legitimate form of punishment for criminals and it was a legitimate way for people in debt to repay their debts.



All those things do fall below the standard that God had originally intended for mankind, so in that way, yes it is a sin. When mankind are fully submissive to Gods rule I can assure you that there will be no one behaving in such violent or oppressive ways.

this makes no sense . they had incorporated... idolatry, murder, stealing, lying already, why not lay down the law right then and there? again, the god of abraham seems to bow down to the chosen ones terms...not very god like, it's more like a justification.

You have to realise that condoning something does not mean you approve of it and want to implement it yourself.

google dictionary defines condone as :
To overlook, forgive, or disregard (an offense) without protest or censure

in other words, it's a double standard.

 

[ellenjanuary]

It's a new pet peeve in my very own ecology - a "personal God." The only relationship between mortal and divine is through Holy Spirit.

 

[Quagmire]

Keep digging then. I liked watching depressed people.

Why because you obviously were uninformed about bodybuilding?

The generalization I made at least holds more true.

A theist believes in god or gods, right?

Where did I say in my statement "ALL"? Never did. I was just responding to one person.

No lamer than yours.

Theists believe in a god or gods. That's what I base it on. No more no less. However they arrive at it usually is because they were indoctrinated or educated by someone who believes in it.

As long as you're using words like "usually" now, I guess I'll settle for that. Not much to show for someone whose been here for 10 months, but any progress is better than no progress.

 

[Pegg]

huh?
Oh, I get it.
You are merely going to dismiss it as my not liking your "answers" instead of even trying to understand that you have not actually answered.

it seems you think that Gods laws are there to control us, when in fact that they are there to protect us.

God values human life more then we do. He has a law against murder because he values human life.
He has a law against violence, because he values human life.
He has a law against rape, because he values human life.
He has a law against disobedience, because he values human life. etc etc etc

He does not outlaw us creating our own cultures though. And because the human race chose to be independent (due to Adams disobedience) he does not control how we choose to run things. Slavery was a human invention and it served a purpose...just as the monetry system was our invention to serve a purpose. God allows us to create our own environment and way of life.

He has been trying to tell us that we were not created to be self governed, but we refuse to listen. So by allowing us to be self governed, he is allowing us to learn by experience.
Jeremiah 10:23 I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step....25 Pour out your rage upon the nations who have ignored you

Eccl 8:9 All this I have seen, and there was an applying of my heart to every work that has been done under the sun, [during] the time that man has dominated man to his injury


Slavery was created by man, not God, and it still exists in various forms and people take advantage of it. For as long as we are independent of God, we are our own masters and we create this world the way we want to create it. If you dont like what you see in the world, then you would do well heed Gods advice:

Proverbs 3:3 My son, my law do not forget, and my commandments may your heart observe, 2 because length of days and years of life and peace will be added to you
5 Trust in Jehovah with all your heart and do not lean upon your own understanding. 6 In all your ways take notice of him, and he himself will make your paths straight

 

[Straw Dog]

Well I suppose this thread ran away on me a little bit. I would still like to better understand how I could have a personal relationship with the Judeo-Christian God when all my experience with personal relationships have been with human beings. The kind described by Christians and others seems very impersonal in contrast.

 

[Pegg]

Well I suppose this thread ran away on me a little bit. I would still like to better understand how I could have a personal relationship with the Judeo-Christian God when all my experience with personal relationships have been with human beings. The kind described by Christians and others seems very impersonal in contrast.

your right, sorry about taking it off track.

But on the point of a relationship with God, there is only one thing you need to understand and that is that any relationship between man and God must be on Gods terms. He does not bow to us, nor does he accept any form of worship.

Once we figure that part out and accept it, then we need to learn what his requirements are. If you learn those requirements and are still keen, then God takes notice and may draw you in.

It is a spiritual experience to have ones eyes opened... and once they are, your relationship will blossom.


The first step is to take in knowledge of what God requires of you.

 

[Adonis65]

I'm fundamentally confused by this particular notion. God-believers want other people to have a relationship with God, but how is that even possible? Where is God? How do you talk to him? How does he talk back? Is prayer like leaving a message on an answering machine except God never calls back? It's like someone commissioning forty odd authors to write down everything they want to say to you nearly 2,000 years ago and then just disappearing without a trace. Yet that person still demands that you believe that they love you or else he'll set you on fire forever.

The entire relationship would be based on the rather impersonal method of commissioning someone else to write about it rather than direct interaction on a personal level, which is how I conduct my personal relations with other people. I know some believe in signs here and there, but you can make any ambiguous event mean almost anything and it's still impersonal. I mean a single child survives a tsunami and it's called a 'miracle'. Never mind the thousands of people, including other children, that died without a reason because then it's called 'God works in mysterious ways'.

So essentially I'm asking how can I have a personal relationship with God, much less worship him, whenever I've never even met him in person or know whether he even exists?

James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him". (KJV Holy Bible)

In the event that you are sincere in your desire to know God, of course.

 

[waitasec]

James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him". (KJV Holy Bible)

In the event that you are sincere in your desire to know God, of course.

interesting. if i may,
if one has come to the understanding that a personal god is an illogical concept, how can one be sincere in their desire to know god?

 

[Straw Dog]

James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him". (KJV Holy Bible)

In the event that you are sincere in your desire to know God, of course.

I understand that you think this Biblical verse can aid me in some way, but unfortunately it doesn't. Years ago I used to pray for wisdom. Now I've come to totally lack all belief in a personal and intelligent Creator-God so I guess in a way I did receive wisdom after all .

 

[Adonis65]

interesting. if i may,
if one has come to the understanding that a personal god is an illogical concept, how can one be sincere in their desire to know god?

They can't be sincere. That is why I supplied the qualifier "In the event that you are sincere."

Sounds like you have all the wisdom you need. Good for you. :clap

 

[waitasec]

They can't be sincere. That is why I supplied the qualifier "In the event that you are sincere."

Sounds like you have all the wisdom you need. Good for you. :clap

...which is why i posed the question...
in the event someone is sincere, they would have to ignore their logic....right?

 

[Straw Dog]

They can't be sincere. That is why I supplied the qualifier "In the event that you are sincere."

Sounds like you have all the wisdom you need. Good for you. :clap

I'm still sincere in my desire to understand how a personal relationship with such a deity can even be logically possible to begin with. I really did used to pray for knowledge of God and I've ended up realizing that there is no knowledge of God to be had so in a way I really did take your advice, albeit a decade ago.

 

[Adonis65]

I understand that you think this Biblical verse can aid me in some way, but unfortunately it doesn't.

It "doesn't" because it can't, or it "doesn't" because you lack the desire to find out?

 

[Adonis65]

...which is why i posed the question...
in the event someone is sincere, they would have to ignore their logic....right?

Sincerity would erase that logic, otherwise it wouldn't be sincere, yes?

 

[Adonis65]

I'm still sincere in my desire to understand how a personal relationship with such a deity can even be logically possible to begin with. I really did used to pray for knowledge of God and I've ended up realizing that there is no knowledge of God to be had so in a way I really did take your advice, albeit a decade ago.

Strange... I've taken the same advice and get all kinds of answers, even to this day. How is it that you didn't get similar results?

 

[Straw Dog]

It "doesn't" because it can't, or it "doesn't" because you lack the desire to find out?

It doesn't because it cannot.