A personal relationship with God?

[McBell]

if you look at Gods laws you will find that he certainly does not condone violence of any sort

Genesis 6:11 And the earth came to be ruined in the sight of the [true] God and the earth became filled with violence. 12 So God saw the earth and, look! it was ruined, because all flesh had ruined its way on the earth

Psalm 11:5 Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one,
And anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates

Perhaps you quoted the wrong verses?
Neither of those has anything to do with the fact that god allowed slaves to be beaten.

The unfortunate fact is that mankind behave this way and they have done so for a very long time. God knows that we are prone to error and he knows that we will act in violent ways....so he gave the isrealites judicial decisions concerning the consequences of behaving in such a way. He said if you hit your slave, or anyone, and injure him, you will have damages imposed upon yourself the equivalent of the damages you put upon someone else. This was a deterrent to violent behavior because God does not condone it at all.

He hates it.

Wow.
Some of the excuses people can come up to justify the actions of their deity can be somewhat disturbing.

 

[ninerbuff]

Nah, I'm sure the deeper I dig the more depressed I'll get.

Keep digging then. I liked watching depressed people.

Ok, then lets use my door to door salesmen example.

Why because you obviously were uninformed about bodybuilding?

Yup, that's exactly what that is. Doesn't make yours look any better though.

The generalization I made at least holds more true.

Why wouldn't that make sense to me? Anyway, we aren't talking about your beleifs, we're talking about your blanket statement about why every theist on the planet believes what they believe.

A theist believes in god or gods, right?

Ah, now it's just "the majority". That's progress.

Where did I say in my statement "ALL"? Never did. I was just responding to one person.

Oh come'on, you can do better than that.

No lamer than yours.

Anyway, just to keep our little chat from getting sidetracked by all these dazzling displays of sparkling wit, I'll post this again:



Do you really believe this? I mean, from what I can see this post was aimed at a guy who just got here, someone you couldn't know much about. so, are you basing the above solely on the fact that he believes in God? I mean do you really think this is what's up with every theist?

Theists believe in a god or gods. That's what I base it on. No more no less. However they arrive at it usually is because they were indoctrinated or educated by someone who believes in it.

 

[Pegg]

Perhaps you got sidetracked and that is why you did not answer the question:

Perhaps you can explain why God specifically commanded that people use markings to show the difference between slaves and indentured servants?​

so that servants are not confused with slaves?

War, poverty, and crime were the basic factors that reduced people into a state of slavery. So if you weren't a captive of an enemy nation or a poor person unable to repay a debt or a criminal, then having a distinguishing mark served to differentiate between them. I dont think there is any more to it then that.

 

[Pegg]

Perhaps you quoted the wrong verses?
Neither of those has anything to do with the fact that god allowed slaves to be beaten.

to the contrary, you will not find a law allowing the beating of anyone let alone a slave.

the law was given in the case of what the judicial system would do to someone who did beat their slave....it wasnt a law 'allowing' beating at all.

Wow.
Some of the excuses people can come up to justify the actions of their deity can be somewhat disturbing.

and its disturbing when people bury their head in the sand and blame a deity, whom they dont even believe exists, for the crimes that people themselves commit. :run:

 

[McBell]

to the contrary, you will not find a law allowing the beating of anyone let alone a slave.

Strawman.
I never said nor even implied at there being a LAW allowing slaves to be beaten.

the law was given in the case of what the judicial system would do to someone who did beat their slave....it wasnt a law 'allowing' beating at all.

Nice way to twist what was actually said.

So are you going to ever actually address the fact that god allowed slaves to be be beaten?

and its disturbing when people bury their head in the sand and blame a deity, whom they dont even believe exists, for the crimes that people themselves commit. :run:

Well, at least you admit to making excuses for your god.
That is a step in the right direction, right?
Or are you content with side stepping and blatant avoidance?

 

[McBell]

so that servants are not confused with slaves?

War, poverty, and crime were the basic factors that reduced people into a state of slavery. So if you weren't a captive of an enemy nation or a poor person unable to repay a debt or a criminal, then having a distinguishing mark served to differentiate between them. I dont think there is any more to it then that.

So why would there needs be a way to differentiate them?

 

[waitasec]

so that servants are not confused with slaves?

War, poverty, and crime were the basic factors that reduced people into a state of slavery. So if you weren't a captive of an enemy nation or a poor person unable to repay a debt or a criminal, then having a distinguishing mark served to differentiate between them. I dont think there is any more to it then that.

slaves were considered property...so were women
you still haven't even touched on the passages where your god also condoned human trafficking.
your god condones the dominion of one human being over another. period.
doesn't sound like a god who is even remotely interested in having a relationship with a mother who's child was just sold off into
a lifelong commitment to slavery.

 

[waitasec]

to the contrary, you will not find a law allowing the beating of anyone let alone a slave.

the law was given in the case of what the judicial system would do to someone who did beat their slave....it wasnt a law 'allowing' beating at all.

aye ya yaye mamasita...
ex 21:
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

and its disturbing when people bury their head in the sand and blame a deity, whom they dont even believe exists, for the crimes that people themselves commit. :run:

what gets me is how far believers are willing to justify horrific acts condoned by their god claiming god was just trying to guide people in the right direction. i'm sure an 8 yr old midianite girl, enslaved by the israelites would appreciate that in hind sight...yes god wanted a personal relationship with her too...:no:

 

[*Deleted*]

It's quite easy to have a personal relationship in terms of metaphor, of story (and that's what our language is anyway.) Our language can never "capture" the Sacred. If so, then we would BE God (I use the Sacred or Divine in terminology.) Why rely on your personal relationship by people who wrote thousands of years ago and for different agendas? You can be informed by them but then use your own creativity and imagination to allow the Sacred to speak in a variety of ways. If you want to call the Sacred, God, then do. But remember the writers wrote what came to mind. Or in terms of priestly accounts, what they were told to write for an agenda. You have the freedom to write your own faith story that is truly yours. You don't have to be boxed in by writers thousands of years ago, that if you met today, you might not want to speak with or would have nothing much in common with. Nor they with you.

 

[Twig pentagram]

to the contrary, you will not find a law allowing the beating of anyone let alone a slave.

I think you need to read your Bible again, because I can remember more than one passage that allows slaves to be beaten.

 

[*Deleted*]

Um...women can be beaten in Holy Writ. The Levite's concubine (the worst of the worst.)
Women, slaves, and children in Holy Writ---very often---property.

 

[Pegg]

So why would there needs be a way to differentiate them?

because servants could come and go whereas slaves were not free to go.

 

[Pegg]

I think you need to read your Bible again, because I can remember more than one passage that allows slaves to be beaten.

Do parents hit their children?

Yes they do. So if parents hit their own children when those children are being naughty, why wouldnt those same parents hit a slave who is misbehaving?

If God does not stop parents from hitting their own children, then he is not going to stop someone from hitting any person. He just doesnt work that way. We are free agents... he didnt create us to be under his control.

 

[McBell]

We are free agents... he didnt create us to be under his control.

The 613 rules of the OT beg to differ...

 

[waitasec]

Do parents hit their children?

Yes they do. So if parents hit their own children when those children are being naughty, why wouldnt those same parents hit a slave who is misbehaving?

If God does not stop parents from hitting their own children, then he is not going to stop someone from hitting any person. He just doesnt work that way. We are free agents... he didnt create us to be under his control.

 

[waitasec]

pegg, there is a huge difference between beating someone, who's so badly injured they can't move for a few days, and punishing your child, with a smack on the butt

 

[Pegg]

The 613 rules of the OT beg to differ...

well, we are free to live within the rules

You are free to use the highways to drive on, but you still have to respect and obey the road rules....thats how everyone is kept safe.

 

[Pegg]

pegg, there is a huge difference between beating someone, who's so badly injured they can't move for a few days, and punishing your child, with a smack on the butt

Cain didnt just throw a rock at Able, he smashed his head in. People take things too far. God knows that we are prone to do so. If he does not control our actions, then we must control our actions....and if we are prone to go overboard, then someone is bound to get hurt eventually.

Im sure God was witness to mans violent outbursts long enough to know that even his own chosen people will still be prone to violent outbursts.

 

[McBell]

well, we are free to live within the rules

You are free to use the highways to drive on, but you still have to respect and obey the road rules....thats how everyone is kept safe.

Seems you have not actually thought it through all the way.

I tell you what, how about you take the time and think it through then come back?

 

[Pegg]

Seems you have not actually thought it through all the way.

I tell you what, how about you take the time and think it through then come back?

i cant help it if you dont like my answer.

I dont view God as the cause of mans violent acts. I dont view God as evil because he has allowed it either.